Reducing ES

[slikmrc]

Problem solved! All you need is a constant supply of new Lapua brass. (HA HA)

 

[Buckreed]

Great. Planning on doing a seating depth test this weekend. Next will be testing primers (if I can find some).

 

[Buckreed]

Problem solved! All you need is a constant supply of new Lapua brass. (HA HA)

Lol. Yeah, that's a variable there. It's new and I haven't $&@ it up yet.
but I learned something there too.

 

[orkan]

Here is a quick update. I loaded 5 more at 43.5 all same as before to verify that I would get consistent results.
Results of number 1 was an ES of 78
Results of number 2 was an ES of 84
Seems reasonably consistent.
I also got my new lapua brass in the mail today so I loaded 5 with with 43.5 gr. all same as I did before and got an ES of 34.
To Alex's point, I think this is much more reasonable and planning to shoot some groups this weekend.
Thanks for everyone's help. I'll continue to chase down all other variables until its shoots the best it/I can.

ES of 34 is quite workable. Much more so than 84. Especially if your SD's are respectable.

 

[Rardoin]

You may be surprised to hear that in 1000yd BR es is not really talked about. Why? Because if the group is small what else matters? I have seen many sub 2" groups with 20 fps es. I shot a 3.5" this am with 30 fps of es. I have lost count of the 1000s of rounds fired at 1k for group. ES doesn't mean a thing. Groups do. In fact, I would bet when tuning at 1k your best es load will not be your smallest group. I mean ever, we see that so consistently its not funny. I time every rifle I build. I dont tumble or clean brass at all. Annealing is not a given, most 1k br Agg records are shot without annealing brass. I shot a couple agg records one year, I ran non in LG and annealed in HG for a whole season just to test. That year I broke 2 HG agg records. But the LG shot just as small when conditions were equal. I just got better conditions for my HG targets. So many facts, are not. Testing for yourself will never be out done.

My experience also. If you can develop a load at the maximum distance you will be shooting it will still shoot very good inside that distance. I have shot some impressive 20+ shot targets in 600 and 1000yd F-class comps that had loads testing with ES of the low 20's in 8-10 rounds during load testing. I have been able to run a LabRadar for an entire day at one 600yd F-class shoot. My best match was 200-14x that day and the ES on that 20 shot string, with 6 sighters was over 30fps. Alternatively I have found charges during testing that had ES of under 3 for 5 shots that were, as Alex alludes, the worst groups of the test. Sometimes the lowest ES/SD groups are the best but that is rare in my experience. Like real estate...location, location, location.......load development is target, target, target.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I don't know why but my best es load has never been the best accuracy load at distance, Its usually close, but I cant remember the best es also being the smallest group at 1k.

 

[waspocrew]

I am not an expert reloader by any means - I glanced through the responses, but might have missed if someone mentioned already... do you trust a ladder with only one shot per charge weight? I understand one shot each will show a trend, but I would think 2 or 3 shots per charge would give you a better sense of true nodes to play with.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

No, a ladder with one shot per charge can do a few things but I dont use them for final load development. With lighter barrels a single shot per charge ladder is handy. It will tell you if the powder and bullet combos going to work, it gives you an idea of where pressure is, and an area to shoot groups at. If a ladder forms up narrow with distinct nodes, you know its a good powder. You also look for steady velocity climb, if its not doing that you know your going to need to try a different primer or powder. If you have a narrow ladder with obvious nodes and steady velocity changes, you now go to 3 shot groups to verify the load. Ladders are a great starting place once you understand how to read them.

 

[Buckreed]

I did do the 3 shot Berger seating test yesterday. All groups were garbage except at 0.010 off the lands. The more the jump the worse they got. Is is a good group for me. Thanks for everyone's help with this. I will still play around with some of the other suggestions like different primers. Hopefully it does well at distance too.

 

[waspocrew]

No, a ladder with one shot per charge can do a few things but I dont use them for final load development. With lighter barrels a single shot per charge ladder is handy. It will tell you if the powder and bullet combos going to work, it gives you an idea of where pressure is, and an area to shoot groups at. If a ladder forms up narrow with distinct nodes, you know its a good powder. You also look for steady velocity climb, if its not doing that you know your going to need to try a different primer or powder. If you have a narrow ladder with obvious nodes and steady velocity changes, you now go to 3 shot groups to verify the load. Ladders are a great starting place once you understand how to read them.

Great explanation, thanks!

 

[MagnumManiac]

The powder is the issue.
I would try 4064/Varget/RL16.
Large swings in velocity are a perfect example of a powder not suited to the bullet/bore ratio.
This indicates the need for a slower burn rate.

Cheers.

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

Problem solved! All you need is a constant supply of new Lapua brass. (HA HA)

(His ES might improve now that he has fire formed brass.)

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

Great explanation, thanks!

What do you mean by "a narrow ladder?" Is it one with very little horizontal dispersion as the charge is increased?

 

[L.Sherm]

What do you mean by "a narrow ladder?" Is it one with very little horizontal dispersion as the charge is increased?

Yes