Reducing ES

[Tulsa Reiner]

Ok, so my logic maybe flawed here but it grabbed the last five I shot with the ES of 51. Here is what I found.
1630
164.0
165.0
165.7
165.2
SD of 0.87 does that seem reasonable? I can check volume next too. Good comment from JMW67 just haven't got that far yet.
I'm thinking if I can show that the brass was not an issue (on these 5) maybe I move on to neck tension. Obviously sorting would be in my prep process going forward as well.
What do you think?

I have only read the first page of this thread, but the first questions in my mind are "What cartridge are you shooting, and at what MV?
In my experience, large ES's most commonly occur when one is pushing the limits on MV. I get my best SD's and ES's when I find a node with a charge weight about 10% below the max recommended by the manufacturer.

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

Gotcha. I appreciate the additional thoughts. I have followed through already on but quality brass so when that arrives I plan to start over and I will plot the new data against the old and see how they line up. I don't know anyone that has a lab radar but I can ask around. I certainly don't want to chase a ghost here so I appreciate input.

I doubt the Magnetospeed is your problem. They are very reliable and consistent. There have been numerous threads on LRH comparing chronos, and nobody has said their Magnetospeed was inconsistent or inaccurate. The main criticism is that the bayonet in front of the muzzle can effect the POI, but then, there is no need to be sighting in ones scope while measuring MV's.

 

[WahooYahoo]

I doubt the Magnetospeed is your problem. They are very reliable and consistent. There have been numerous threads on LRH comparing chronos, and nobody has said their Magnetospeed was inconsistent or inaccurate. The main criticism is that the bayonet in front of the muzzle can effect the POI, but then, there is no need to be sighting in ones scope while measuring MV's.

I wasn't blaming Magneto Speed, I was questioning wether HIS magneto Speed/setup gave him accurate data. My rule for my self is, if it looks squirrely, check everything, and repeat. I added the "get next to LabRadar" because I get less odd data like increased charge wt=decreased velocity and one-off weird velocities with Lab Radar. Adding in data from a Crony or the like is of no use to me. They are way too finicky. The Magneto Speed can be sensitive to fitment. Wasn't trying to ruffle feathers. Just trying to help the OP. It's just what I would do.

 

[bullet man]

get a lee factory crimp die and put a crimp on them and watch your numbers go down

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I want to say this to be clear about what Im saying. I am not saying that doing things at the reloading bench that improve consistency or ease of loading are bad or shouldnt be done. Lowering your ES is not a bad thing. I am just trying to make the point that if your shooting 1 moa groups with a custom rifle thats well built, most likely your not giving it the right load. Assuming your not using gear thats causing major issues at the loading bench, I believe your biggest gain will be to focus on getting the ammunition tuned for your barrel. Bullet, powder, primer, neck tension, amounts and locations. Once you have that thing shooting well, thats when you start to look at taking it to the next level. So, Im trying to say to keep priorities in order to achieve your goals.

On the topic of reloading gear, try to find things you need to improve first, then buy the gear. So if your using a press mounted primer tool with zero feel to it and your seating primers all over the map, upgrade. If your throwing powder and your getting +/- .2gn variation and you intended to shoot to 1k or farther, get a better system. Dont just buy things to do it, unless you just want to have nice stuff. Nothing wrong with that either.

 

[capona]

Which is why I asked him what kind of groups he was getting with that ES.

Some of my best groups have had high ES.

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

I wasn't blaming Magneto Speed, I was questioning wether HIS magneto Speed/setup gave him accurate data. My rule for my self is, if it looks squirrely, check everything, and repeat. I added the "get next to LabRadar" because I get less odd data like increased charge wt=decreased velocity and one-off weird velocities with Lab Radar. Adding in data from a Crony or the like is of no use to me. They are way too finicky. The Magneto Speed can be sensitive to fitment. Wasn't trying to ruffle feathers. Just trying to help the OP. It's just what I would do.

My feathers weren't ruffled at all.

 

[WahooYahoo]

Thanks for that. That's my trouble with texts and forums. It's anybody's guess regarding context.

 

[zach_destroys]

If you have them , primer change is a quick way to see if a difference can be reached. Otherwise, Set your neck tension using mandrels. This is easy to do and is faster than weight sorting. Next I would trim the necks because after the mandrel pushes out the neck all the inconsistencies are there for you to trim off.Depending on the purpose of the cartridge you will only need .001 neck tension for target shooting but can use 2 to 3 For other purposes.
However there is something else to consider.

I would try mag primers before changing anything else.

 

[LM056]

Comments such as those of Alex Wheeler and others are among the most valuable things to be gained from this blog, thank you Alex for sharing your comments and experience. This has been a most worthwhile exchange, lots of good ideas.

 

[Buckreed]

Comments such as those of Alex Wheeler and others are among the most valuable things to be gained from this blog, thank you Alex for sharing your comments and experience. This has been a most worthwhile exchange, lots of good ideas.

Agreed. Thanks to everyone for offering help. There is a lot here to digest and start implementing & testing. I'll post what I find.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I tell a lot of my BR customers that long range BR is not a shooting competition, its a tuning competition. We have put inexperienced shooters behind good rifles with good tunes and they have been competitive and even won relays. Learn to enjoy the challenge of working through load development and you will eventually get that rifle to shoot like you want it to. Assuming its a well built custom capable of your requirements. Some factory rifles can shoot really well too, but its more of a gamble. If your one of those guys that just hates load development, Id really try to find a way not to. Look at it like a puzzle. You can pay someone to do it but its a changing puzzle. The load doesnt stay the same over a barrels life and different weather. So there is no "pet load" for a barrel if you want it to shoot its best. The fact is, load development is a big part of lr shooting. And do not feel bad if you struggle. All of us went through barrels learning how to do it and are still learning. It takes effort. Struggling through some things and figuring them out for yourself will take you farther than just following someones recipe. Learn the "whys".

 

[Buckreed]

Here is a quick update. I loaded 5 more at 43.5 all same as before to verify that I would get consistent results.
Results of number 1 was an ES of 78
Results of number 2 was an ES of 84
Seems reasonably consistent.
I also got my new lapua brass in the mail today so I loaded 5 with with 43.5 gr. all same as I did before and got an ES of 34.
To Alex's point, I think this is much more reasonable and planning to shoot some groups this weekend.
Thanks for everyone's help. I'll continue to chase down all other variables until its shoots the best it/I can.

 

[Rhovee]

That's better. I have had one rifle in about 15 barrels that had a higher ES until I got to the accuracy node. You can see how it shoots. But changing primers or seating depth should do it. Without trying to hard, mine always end up below 20. Usually closer to 15