Ran another ladder still can’t seem to find a clear path forward

[skipglo]

That's the group number and shot. So I could
Match it to velocity

Then those still are the group's I would play in....thanks

 

[Chase723]

Shot is wind less than 10 mph. From a bench with sand bags. Last group on bottom left was sighting a different rifle. But they are in order left to right, top to bottom. Starting lowest charge working to highest. 4 min between shots for barrel to cool. Started with a clean barrel

What distance are you shooting at? Is this a custom rifle/custom barrel/bedded/chassis/mini chassis? What twist is your barrel? Is it sufficient to completely stabilize that bullet? Why are you waiting 4 minutes between shots? That has to take forever. You want to know what your barrel is going to do while it's both cold and warm. If your shooting charge weight groups, which it looks like you are, then 15-45 seconds between shots and 45-90 seconds between groups is sufficient. A warm barrel is fine, you just don't want it to get hot.

This is potentially a very protracted conversation. I think that the following video might help you quite a bit. Despite what a lot of people think, most rifles shoot jacketed bullets most consistently when you are jumping 40-50 thou or so to start. It's a jump distance window where your rifle will shoot the most consistently the longest. Sometimes it works better to start with a seating depth test first and then shoot a charge/veloctity ladder. Regardless, it's a lot to go over.



Good reading about jump distance windows

Bullet Jump: Is Less Always Better?

About 2 years ago, Mark Gordon shared some preliminary research he’d conducted with the Applied Bal...

precisionrifleblog.com

Mark’s 18-Shot Bullet Jump Challenge!

Are you one of those guys who has been reading this series of posts on bullet jump, and thinking to...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[Randy dawson]

Ran a seating depth test today. Started with a clean barrel at the lands for fouling. Then shot groups starting at -.120 to .020. Here are the results. After fouling group I also adjusted the scope

 

[Bob Wright]

At .020 off, your velocity is stable and your grouping is tightest.
Now go find your upper node in velocity (with same seating) and which powder charge weight works best between/around 75-75.5 in .2 increments. Watch for pressure again.

 

[emp1953]

Shot is wind less than 10 mph. From a bench with sand bags. Last group on bottom left was sighting a different rifle. But they are in order left to right, top to bottom. Starting lowest charge working to highest. 4 min between shots for barrel to cool. Started with a clean barrel

Is it a new rifle?

 

[bstomper]

This is why I do a seating depth test first. Once the depth is dialed in, watching the nodes open and close is predicable.

Can you explain how you do seating depth testing first and what to look for in the results. I always thought it was done last to help tighten up the groups

 

[Wolf76]

Can you explain how you do seating depth testing first and what to look for in the results. I always thought it was done last to help tighten up the groups

Pick a middle of the road charge and fill a number of identically prepped cases. Then, start seating the bullets in groups of three at certain distances off the lands...15, 30, 45, 60, etc.
Now go shoot your seating depth groups at different dots on a target at a minimum of 100 yards. You will see a group that shoots much better than the others, in a comparative sense. Then start tweaking the seating depth from there in 5 thousandths.
please note, if your gun likes to group when it's dirty, start the process after it has been fouled.
IME - the seating depth does not change until the throat erodes a fair bit or you go to a different bullet. Also cup n core bullets usually like 10-30 off and Berger's like jammed or very close to jammed, unless it's the hybrid.

 

[StumpGrinder]

I've seen 1 m.o.a at 100 turn into 10" at 500.
Whats ethical?

The ethical accuracy of any weapon, ammo or hunter is that range at which you can put Every shot into a paper plate. For me with a bow it is around 40 yards, my Ruger Red Hawk 44 mag off a good rest is 100 yds. About the same off hand with a rifle. With my scoped rifles my limit is 500 yards in a calm day, half that in a wind. These are the restrictions I have placed on myself because of my limitations which I test regularly. I consider myself to be an ethical hunter, and pride myself on harvesting game with quick clean kills.

 

[StumpGrinder]

Can you explain how you do seating depth testing first and what to look for in the results. I always thought it was done last to help tighten up the groups

This is what I thought as well. I usually do load development first and then take my best load to do seating depth tests. Is this backwards???

 

[L.Sherm]

The ethical accuracy of any weapon, ammo or hunter is that range at which you can put Every shot into a paper plate. For me with a bow it is around 40 yards, my Ruger Red Hawk 44 mag off a good rest is 100 yds. About the same off hand with a rifle. With my scoped rifles my limit is 500 yards in a calm day, half that in a wind. These are the restrictions I have placed on myself because of my limitations which I test regularly. I consider myself to be an ethical hunter, and pride myself on harvesting game with quick clean kills.

I take pride in quick clean kills also, but ethical is very broad and Len' s rules talk about not debating it.

 

[MajorSpittle]

Shot is wind less than 10 mph. From a bench with sand bags. Last group on bottom left was sighting a different rifle. But they are in order left to right, top to bottom. Starting lowest charge working to highest. 4 min between shots for barrel to cool. Started with a clean barrel

I'd retest 72.8, 73, 73.2 and look for good consistent velocity and minimal horizontal dispersion.

If that area looks good I'd start looking into seating depth on the load that is closest to the middle of the sweet spot.

 

[StumpGrinder]

I take pride in quick clean kills also, but ethical is very broad and Len' s rules talk about not debating it.

I didn't realize I was debating. The paper plate rule has been the accepted standard in archery since Fred Bear. I just transferred it to firearms for my own self guidance. It seems to me to be a good measure of proficiency.

 

[Wolf76]

This is what I thought as well. I usually do load development first and then take my best load to do seating depth tests. Is this backwards???

Both ways are commonly used. Because new barrels/guns are getting faster as they break-in, it seems like the ideal time to do the seating depth test and tweak. I haven't found the ideal seating depth to change at all with different powders or charges. If I can get half the equation done, it makes quick work of finding the right powder. Been more than a few times that I determined the powder was completely wrong with with less than a dozen shots. It also makes reading groups much easier.
Good luck.

 

[MajorSpittle]

Both ways are commonly used. Because new barrels/guns are getting faster as they break-in, it seems like the ideal time to do the seating depth test and tweak. I haven't found the ideal seating depth to change at all with different powders or charges. If I can get half the equation done, it makes quick work of finding the right powder. Been more than a few times that I determined the powder was completely wrong with with less than a dozen shots. It also makes reading groups much easier.
Good luck.

To me it makes more sense to work the load first as you typically need to find the max pressure/velocity so you have an idea of what is going on with your load when you decide on a powder charge.... ie how far you need to stay away from P-Max for the powder type you are using (powder, brass, temp, seating, primer variance) and what kind of case fill you will have.

So typically I work up to P-Max with 3 round groups in .5gr increments and find my nodes first. Usually I am starting at about .1 off the lands but depends on bullets I'm using.