Ramblings and Such From Hunting Coyote

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

The coyote is the most pursued predator in the U.S.. They have tried to kill all of them, and it didn't work.
A wise man once said that there will be a coyote around to gnaw the bon\es of the last man on earth.
I am a new member here. I was on another hunting forum and someone posted a link to this site and this thread. I started reading the start of this thread three days ago and it has kept me up late at night. I am on the 90 page and I have to say that it is by far the best there is on the art of coyote control. I have just now got into calling coyotes, but have trapped probably over a 1000 in my life. We used to do a lot of trapping for the live market. I don't hit it very hard anymore since the fur market has all but crashed and I'm not as young as I was. I still catch a few close to home just because I love trapping them. I noticed that Dsheetz mentioned his brother living in Shoals. I am not far from there. I live near Petersburg. I have enjoyed the first 90 pages of this thread and look forward to reading all of it. Thank you all for such great info and very interesting stories.

Another saying about Yotes is that you can kill 75% of them and it won't put a dent in the population. They are getting 'Urbanized" with plenty of food from family pets.
Also the yotes kill up to 75% of the new born Deer. Devistate the ground breeding birds (Quail, Turkey). If one Yote sees a group of chick quail or turkey they will kill everyone and then bring back to their brood.
I shot an 8 point in our back property with a bow. waited 45 minutes before tracking and no blood. wnet back to the house for one hour and came back with lights, GPS, and peroxide. I finally found the blood trail and when i crested an old logging road i was challenged by two big yotes. I screamed and they ran. My buck was totally eaten from his back hooves to his lungs. i figured the Yotes smelled his blood and within one hour ate 3/4 of that buck, had to be a pack.
Once the bridges were put across the olds Miss river the yote moved to the SE and NE.
I kill everyone of them!

 

[DSheetz]

Blackoak ; thank you for the kind words. The people here do what we can and take it serious but also enjoy themselves at the same time. We also try to help others along the way. We also know that skunks, racoons, fox, feral cats and other predators kill the nesting birds. Hogs, dogs, bobcats, mountain lions and other animals take their toll on the deer, antelope, elk, moose and other big game animals and their young, as well as affecting the livestock numbers.

 

[trapper1954]

Trapper1954; thank you for posting the link to the USDA site and brochure it's an updated version of the one I had from the 80's . At that time Collage Station TX and The University of Southern California, had done the most studies on coyote depredation and control. In one of the studies done in southern California they watched a blind female coyote successfully den, give birth and raise her pups, that just shows how determined they are to survive. On one ranch that I went to work for they were only raising a 70-75 percent lamb crop at weening and shipping time when I started working for them in five years' time, with a good denning and control program all months of the year they were shipping 109 percent on average. Range lambing you start out with the potential of 120 percent being born, you will lose some no matter what, then you can lose up to five percent at docking and some to the weather so it is possible that you could get around 114 percent at shipping time in a really good year. I earned my way taking out the killers first than the others as needed. Had a good time and enjoyed myself while learning a lot about coyote lifestyles in the over 36 years of doing coyote control.

I've got some old printed material somewhere from way back that was illustrations and horse meat bait stuff issued to government trappers maybe from 68 or so, you know put this and that in a 1 gallon jar and bury it for 6 months, don't see that out there anymore. Trapping is a dyeing art and we may see it fade out to just a small network of like minded people that have the space and are still actively at it . Most all the old lessons and formulas aren't on line maybe not in print anywhere. I've got an autographed book from James Lucero that he gave me once upon a time when I went to Tuley (Tularosa) to see him and it has good lessons to learn. If its good enough for one trap its good enough for two why not four. Whats the most y'all have caught in a gang sent... You've got to try to catch multiples or you never will. Whats the fur market, I dont think there is a hide buyer here and cant say about Canada or up in Casper. Fur is best I have seen here in all my life this year. I'm expecting some serious weather to come soon. oh that set I posted pictures of, center of the road set, took a 35# male Sunday. He took 10 days to come check his sign, back foot catch but I'll take it. His lamb killing days are over, that's #14 off 390 acres since I started November 2, two of which weighted 40 and 42, three at 30-35# and only 1 pup.
Later

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

I've got some old printed material somewhere from way back that was illustrations and horse meat bait stuff issued to government trappers maybe from 68 or so, you know put this and that in a 1 gallon jar and bury it for 6 months, don't see that out there anymore. Trapping is a dyeing art and we may see it fade out to just a small network of like minded people that have the space and are still actively at it . Most all the old lessons and formulas aren't on line maybe not in print anywhere. I've got an autographed book from James Lucero that he gave me once upon a time when I went to Tuley (Tularosa) to see him and it has good lessons to learn. If its good enough for one trap its good enough for two why not four. Whats the most y'all have caught in a gang sent... You've got to try to catch multiples or you never will. Whats the fur market, I dont think there is a hide buyer here and cant say about Canada or up in Casper. Fur is best I have seen here in all my life this year. I'm expecting some serious weather to come soon. oh that set I posted pictures of, center of the road set, took a 35# male Sunday. He took 10 days to come check his sign, back foot catch but I'll take it. His lamb killing days are over, that's #14 off 390 acres since I started November 2, two of which weighted 40 and 42, three at 30-35# and only 1 pup.
Later

When I was a young boy in NE PA. I loved Trapping all winter long. Would get up 4:00am every morning, check my trapline and then go to school, come home and check another line. We really didn't have any Yotes back them. Mostly trapped mink, beaver, muskrat in water and a few dry fox sets. Some of the best times of my life. I thought I was a Mountain Man!
About six years ago I tried my hand at Yote trapping. The problem came down to trapping regulations, lack of land due to land owners adverse to leg hold traps. There has been a negative misinformation campaigns put out by animal groups against Trapping. These same groups cry about how the Yotes have been taking their pet cats and small dogs out of their yards.
Coyote Trapping is one of the best ways to get rid of Yotes. You can cover a lot of area with traps and they are always there 24/7 for a Yote to come into. We got a bunch of Flat Traps hanging in the tree outside our house. I call them "Show Traps".

 

[DSheetz]

Trapping isn't for a lazy person, it's a lot of work and takes a lot of skill and knowledge to be successful. As with all of the other outdoor sports there is a ton of misinformation spread about it. On the news the other day they were talking about how the use of M-44's was being banned on public lands, here in Wyoming, but they were calling them cyanide bombs, that's a long way from the truth, but so many people that don't have a clue will now believe that they are a bomb, the same as they are called a cyanide gun, the old coyote getters have been gone for a long time as well. Misinformation has, is and will be a tool used by a lot of people to reach their goals no matter what those goals are. Governments and individuals alike use it that is one of the reasons for the saying buyer beware. I don't know what the fur prices are doing around here, the last I knew one buyer had 2500 coyotes he couldn't afford to let go at the price he was offered. I enjoyed James Lucero's book and teachings. Several of the old recipes and types of baits and lures were sold by Crag and Danna O'Gorman, the horse meat one is one of them, if I remember right, it was called Montana bait. The methods and ingredients were a closely guarded secret by the old timers. It came from the old-time government trappers when they would buy a slaughter horse, walk it out to the sight that they wanted to put a bait pile and kill it. Sometimes it was poisoned with various types of toxins to kill the coyotes sometimes it was cut up and used as bait for trapping. That practice was banned in 1972 by the Richard Nixon, administration. A lot has changed in recent times we that were there know of these changes, but the people born after them don't know any different. The roads that I grew up using on public land are for the most part closed now, posted and truck loads of dirt piled in the entrances to them, the fishing and camping sites are closed now that I used to go to and take my kids. The world is changing the population has increased as have the rules and regulations. It has and will continue to change we adapt to it, or we get passed by. The snares that I used in the 80's and earlier are no longer permitted to be used in my state, several of the ways that I was taught to trap are no longer permitted. I made concessions and learned how to do things differently, to accomplish the same things. I recently bought some Thompson snares but before I can use them, I have to make a few changes to them, they have to have a break away device added to them. Yes, an inconvenience but it's now the way I have to do things. We study, learn and adapt to an ever-changing world.

 

[trapper1954]

Trapping isn't for a lazy person, it's a lot of work and takes a lot of skill and knowledge to be successful. As with all of the other outdoor sports there is a ton of misinformation spread about it. On the news the other day they were talking about how the use of M-44's was being banned on public lands, here in Wyoming, but they were calling them cyanide bombs, that's a long way from the truth, but so many people that don't have a clue will now believe that they are a bomb, the same as they are called a cyanide gun, the old coyote getters have been gone for a long time as well. Misinformation has, is and will be a tool used by a lot of people to reach their goals no matter what those goals are. Governments and individuals alike use it that is one of the reasons for the saying buyer beware. I don't know what the fur prices are doing around here, the last I knew one buyer had 2500 coyotes he couldn't afford to let go at the price he was offered. I enjoyed James Lucero's book and teachings. Several of the old recipes and types of baits and lures were sold by Crag and Danna O'Gorman, the horse meat one is one of them, if I remember right, it was called Montana bait. The methods and ingredients were a closely guarded secret by the old timers. It came from the old-time government trappers when they would buy a slaughter horse, walk it out to the sight that they wanted to put a bait pile and kill it. Sometimes it was poisoned with various types of toxins to kill the coyotes sometimes it was cut up and used as bait for trapping. That practice was banned in 1972 by the Richard Nixon, administration. A lot has changed in recent times we that were there know of these changes, but the people born after them don't know any different. The roads that I grew up using on public land are for the most part closed now, posted and truck loads of dirt piled in the entrances to them, the fishing and camping sites are closed now that I used to go to and take my kids. The world is changing the population has increased as have the rules and regulations. It has and will continue to change we adapt to it, or we get passed by. The snares that I used in the 80's and earlier are no longer permitted to be used in my state, several of the ways that I was taught to trap are no longer permitted. I made concessions and learned how to do things differently, to accomplish the same things. I recently bought some Thompson snares but before I can use them, I have to make a few changes to them, they have to have a break away device added to them. Yes, an inconvenience but it's now the way I have to do things. We study, learn and adapt to an ever-changing world.

A friend of mine now deceased had a picture from out Angelo way of 75 dead coyotes at a horse. All lined up in 2 rows on the ground in winter time on a sheep place, think of the lambs and yearlings saved.

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

Trapping isn't for a lazy person, it's a lot of work and takes a lot of skill and knowledge to be successful. As with all of the other outdoor sports there is a ton of misinformation spread about it. On the news the other day they were talking about how the use of M-44's was being banned on public lands, here in Wyoming, but they were calling them cyanide bombs, that's a long way from the truth, but so many people that don't have a clue will now believe that they are a bomb, the same as they are called a cyanide gun, the old coyote getters have been gone for a long time as well. Misinformation has, is and will be a tool used by a lot of people to reach their goals no matter what those goals are. Governments and individuals alike use it that is one of the reasons for the saying buyer beware. I don't know what the fur prices are doing around here, the last I knew one buyer had 2500 coyotes he couldn't afford to let go at the price he was offered. I enjoyed James Lucero's book and teachings. Several of the old recipes and types of baits and lures were sold by Crag and Danna O'Gorman, the horse meat one is one of them, if I remember right, it was called Montana bait. The methods and ingredients were a closely guarded secret by the old timers. It came from the old-time government trappers when they would buy a slaughter horse, walk it out to the sight that they wanted to put a bait pile and kill it. Sometimes it was poisoned with various types of toxins to kill the coyotes sometimes it was cut up and used as bait for trapping. That practice was banned in 1972 by the Richard Nixon, administration. A lot has changed in recent times we that were there know of these changes, but the people born after them don't know any different. The roads that I grew up using on public land are for the most part closed now, posted and truck loads of dirt piled in the entrances to them, the fishing and camping sites are closed now that I used to go to and take my kids. The world is changing the population has increased as have the rules and regulations. It has and will continue to change we adapt to it, or we get passed by. The snares that I used in the 80's and earlier are no longer permitted to be used in my state, several of the ways that I was taught to trap are no longer permitted. I made concessions and learned how to do things differently, to accomplish the same things. I recently bought some Thompson snares but before I can use them, I have to make a few changes to them, they have to have a break away device added to them. Yes, an inconvenience but it's now the way I have to do things. We study, learn and adapt to an ever-changing world.

Just to add on to my last Post and DSheetz about hard work. When I (11 years old) went out at 4:00am in the morning and checked some of my lines I came home and changed clothes to go to school and then had to walk up hill 5 miles to get to the school house! Then I had to walk up hill to get home after school to check another 2 hours walking through the snow to get to the other trap lines.
I don't think kids these days have that great opportunity that myself and my childhood friends had.
Life has changed so much in the past 60 years and realistically the past 25 + years for our children.

 

[DSheetz]

One morning in late spring or early summer, I went up on the mountain calling. It was a beautiful day, sunny, warm no wind the grass was green and about 8 inches tall. I was up at around 8000 feet and had heard a group of pups talking the day before, so I had slipped in around the ridge closer to them, the next morning and wanted to get the adults to come in. I found a good round bottomed draw with good grass and a nice gentle slope going toward where I had heard them. I got set up and was laying in the grass facing toward where I figured the den was having seen several smaller cotton tail rabbits that was my first choice of calls. I let out a series of cotton tail squeals, paused and was getting ready to let out another series of squeals when I saw a coyote moving out of some sage brush below me, I got it in my scope and started my next series when out of nowhere from behind me an owl swooped and came within a few inches of my head. End of that calling session I never saw the coyote again that morning, went back to the truck got my composure, had a cup of coffee. Moved to another location and got the pups to talk then took the den as they showed themselves when they group howled at me. I set up my snares and took the adults with them. I don't care who you are when a big owl misses you from behind it is a total shock and something you will not soon forget. It's one of those experiences that you might not tell your spouse about for a while or anyone else for that matter. If you can say that it didn't startle you, you aren't being truthful to yourself. These are some of the times that you wouldn't trade for anything.

 

[BigDon]

One morning in late spring or early summer, I went up on the mountain calling. It was a beautiful day, sunny, warm no wind the grass was green and about 8 inches tall. I was up at around 8000 feet and had heard a group of pups talking the day before, so I had slipped in around the ridge closer to them, the next morning and wanted to get the adults to come in. I found a good round bottomed draw with good grass and a nice gentle slope going toward where I had heard them. I got set up and was laying in the grass facing toward where I figured the den was having seen several smaller cotton tail rabbits that was my first choice of calls. I let out a series of cotton tail squeals, paused and was getting ready to let out another series of squeals when I saw a coyote moving out of some sage brush below me, I got it in my scope and started my next series when out of nowhere from behind me an owl swooped and came within a few inches of my head. End of that calling session I never saw the coyote again that morning, went back to the truck got my composure, had a cup of coffee. Moved to another location and got the pups to talk then took the den as they showed themselves when they group howled at me. I set up my snares and took the adults with them. I don't care who you are when a big owl misses you from behind it is a total shock and something you will not soon forget. It's one of those experiences that you might not tell your spouse about for a while or anyone else for that matter. If you can say that it didn't startle you, you aren't being truthful to yourself. These are some of the times that you wouldn't trade for anything.

I've had this happen almost every night out calling coyotes in So. Cal. You don't ever get used to it - especially when they come back for seconds with an attitude!

 

[74honker]

One morning in late spring or early summer, I went up on the mountain calling. It was a beautiful day, sunny, warm no wind the grass was green and about 8 inches tall. I was up at around 8000 feet and had heard a group of pups talking the day before, so I had slipped in around the ridge closer to them, the next morning and wanted to get the adults to come in. I found a good round bottomed draw with good grass and a nice gentle slope going toward where I had heard them. I got set up and was laying in the grass facing toward where I figured the den was having seen several smaller cotton tail rabbits that was my first choice of calls. I let out a series of cotton tail squeals, paused and was getting ready to let out another series of squeals when I saw a coyote moving out of some sage brush below me, I got it in my scope and started my next series when out of nowhere from behind me an owl swooped and came within a few inches of my head. End of that calling session I never saw the coyote again that morning, went back to the truck got my composure, had a cup of coffee. Moved to another location and got the pups to talk then took the den as they showed themselves when they group howled at me. I set up my snares and took the adults with them. I don't care who you are when a big owl misses you from behind it is a total shock and something you will not soon forget. It's one of those experiences that you might not tell your spouse about for a while or anyone else for that matter. If you can say that it didn't startle you, you aren't being truthful to yourself. These are some of the times that you wouldn't trade for anything.

Had one hit a duck decoy in the dark once. It was probably 20yrds away and the sound those talons make on plastic is enough to make anyone about have to change their undies. At a few inchs from your head, that would make a guy jump out of his hide lol.

 

[trapper1954]

Had one hit a duck decoy in the dark once. It was probably 20yrds away and the sound those talons make on plastic is enough to make anyone about have to change their undies. At a few inchs from your head, that would make a guy jump out of his hide lol.

Lost my cap once, those guys are really silent in flight.

 

[trapper1954]

Another saying about Yotes is that you can kill 75% of them and it won't put a dent in the population. They are getting 'Urbanized" with plenty of food from family pets.
Also the yotes kill up to 75% of the new born Deer. Devistate the ground breeding birds (Quail, Turkey). If one Yote sees a group of chick quail or turkey they will kill everyone and then bring back to their brood.
I shot an 8 point in our back property with a bow. waited 45 minutes before tracking and no blood. wnet back to the house for one hour and came back with lights, GPS, and peroxide. I finally found the blood trail and when i crested an old logging road i was challenged by two big yotes. I screamed and they ran. My buck was totally eaten from his back hooves to his lungs. i figured the Yotes smelled his blood and within one hour ate 3/4 of that buck, had to be a pack.
Once the bridges were put across the olds Miss river the yote moved to the SE and NE.
I kill everyone of them!

I'm coming back to this and if you guys are ever caught up in predator control and got a kill deal laid out, pay attention to all sign at the scene, dont stomp it out. Dont contaminate it. I've gutted lots of coyotes and studied the contents and amounts and when I find a kill and there's 25 plus pounds of meat gone (can be as much as total meat gone) there has to be either a slew of coyotes that ate or something else is in the mix of things. They will crap and thats a good lead as to who came by and ate but maybe not all there is to the story. Here we have coyotes and bobcats that are most likely and easy to sort the difference. Theres more lions than you think here and I will post a link, they are the here today gone tomorrow problem and a rare but here too the mexican black bear, the cant touch deal but can be caught by accident in hog traps. Hogs just make things disappear and here by the hundreds but are easy to locate and not hard to call btw, I suggest daytime calling on these guys as they are hard to light up with a regular headlight and shy with a Q beam. My point is know what your target is and look for sign distant to the kill in the early summer I have found coyote dropping with wool miles from the closest sheep, he's easier to catch there in his safe place than in the sheep.. Wash out the scat if you have to to verify the hair,wool etc.

Mountain Lion Kill-Site Forensics: Identifying Predation, Scavenging and Kleptoparasitism

Words and Photographs by Phil Johnston Be advised: This article contains graphic images of animal remains. Whether you are

mountainlion.org

 

[trapper1954]

Im gonna throw out some links that might be helpful and food for thought.

Cougar attack captured! Battle of the Little Bighorn - Petersen's Hunting

Battle of the Little Bighorn? Not much of a battle, really. This phreaking phantastic photo

www.petersenshunting.com

 

[DSheetz]

It is not hard to actually figure out what is doing the killing once you have learned what to be looking for yourself. The problems that I've encountered are common ones. You get a call, and the producer is positive they have a coyote problem. They found a kill or several and the first thing they did was to tromp around the site. The scavengers have been there already, the kill isn't really all that fresh, in the heat of summer it doesn't take long for the kill to become a putrid mess. Mutiple animals have visited it and had their share of the kill. When determining what actually killed the animal or animals it's nice if they are pretty fresh. One morning I was going down a draw and found a yearling steer lying dead. a slight burn mark on its head and one foot told me lightning strike was the problem on it. I have seen several cows and sheep gathered in a fence corner dead by lightning strike. We had a new guy that was sure he had a coyote killing lambs, ten lambs were just gone. I smiled at him and asked him if he was sure, it wasn't a cat. He got kind of loud with me and let me know he didn't have a mountain lion in his area. I said well I asked about a cat meaning a bob cat not a lion. The producer said we did see a big bobcat but were saving it till fur season when it will bring good money. So, then I asked how much its fur value was worth, compared to the value of the lambs you have lost. The first clue was that they were missing no bodies were found. When I went out it was bobcat tracks not coyote tracks, verify for yourself what is killing. I've been called several times for coyotes killing when it wasn't really the case. Skinning the neck back and looking at the puncture wounds tells you a ton of information, the spacing of the canines as well as the size of them. Coyotes have a wider spacing say an inch and a half between them with larger diameter canines. A bobcat has around an inch between their canines, red fox are close to the same as a bobcat so the size of the killed animal is also a clue, little reds can't kill as big an animal as a bobcat, if it's a yearling lamb it probably wasn't a red fox although it could be. Take your time read the signs and interoperate them, before you make a decision about what it is you are looking for. Killing the correct killer first saves you, time, money, effort and embarrassment. It's not learned in a day or two, or a kill site or two. It helps if you have a good, experienced teacher to help you, see what exactly you are looking for and at. If you look around, you can find some good written materials on degerming what is doing the killing and also some halfcocked ideas written by a new to the field thinking they know it and want to mark their territory. Read through it and you can tell the difference pretty fast. File your materials in the correct bens and continue learning with experience in the field.