Question regarding light mtn rifles vs recoil

[MagnumManiac]

Lucky you have the choice of either a brake or suppressor, I tried a brake on my Edge and my 338-416 Rigby Improved, don't like them at all for hunting. I had a super lightweight 300WM, seeing shot hits with that was like pulling teeth, they rattled so hard trying to tame the muzzle jump was ridiculous. I still have a 8lb 300WM, can't see hits with that either, recoil is the issue. Can see hits with my 264WM…it weighs almost 15lbs though. Lol.

Cheers.

 

[M1A1ABRAMS]

Yeah i forgot to say that part, i cant do a brake because i hunt with my horses and i dont wanna risk blowing their hearing if we jump somethin while ridin.

Re the scope and stock i hear ya. I had switched scopes before but was from a 30mm to 30mm tube. This one is a 1" so that coulda made the diff. Stock fit too, i like this stock a lot so wont be switchin it out.

Im partialy askin to inform a possible future rifle. If this is slightly too ... what is a better combo.

Oh yeah i work like heck to be able to spot hits, im really happy with the progress ive made in that area from a few years back.

Just curious but can't you get hearing protection for your horses ? Maybe cotton in the ears ? Would be better than nothing. Or would the horses not like it ? I know they have blinders for horses. But I never seen anyone using ear protection. But then I never hunted with horses.

 

[VinceMule]

We hunted off of mules/horses, three-man team or a four man team.

With a horse/mule carrying your gun, I do not see the need in having an ultra-light rifle. None of us in our party even thought about the need for an ultralight. Two guys hunted with BAR 7 Mag with the Boss which was tuned to be extremely accurate, and I hunted with a Browning Stainless stalker in 7 Mag which grouped 3/8". We saw our hits with 140g Partitions due to brakes. We never shot within 100 feet of the mules, and shots were away from the mules. A fourth hunting partner hunted with a 257 Weatherby using Weatherby 117g Factory ammo that just flatten elk in their tracks, the boy could shoot, and he had a brake also.

The shooting was a planned event, with the safety of the other men and mules being a priority. We hunted the roughest country you could imagine.

It would have to be a thin can to get the darn thing in and out of the scabbard. None in our party would ever wear his rifle slung over his shoulder while riding a horse/mule.

Again, I question the need and the value of having an ultra-light for horseback hunting, but guys do hunt very differently.

 

[Aussie Hunter Steve]

Stock design and balance play an important part on being able to spot shots. Having forward weight contributes more to the equation than just simple overall weight. I have a 8 1/4 lb all up 338 that stays on target, and have used heavier outfits in much smaller cartridges where I couldn't see what was happening. A straight comb is good. A scope with a forgiving eye box will help.

 

[buzby]

Losing weight in the rifle will definitely handicap your shooting. I have a sub 5lb kimber 308 that I thought would be great. It really sucks to shoot! I much prefer my tikka 6.5cm in a krg bravo. Right at 10lbs. I will gladly carry the extra 5lbs!

Your rifle is moving before the bullet exits the barrel. Everyone shoots better with less recoil.

 

[VinceMule]

approximately 0.200

I like a little Heft in my rifles for this reason.

 

[willfrye027]

I've been trying to quantify this in terms of ft/lbs of recoil. I also won't use a brake and can't have a suppressor. Around 13 ft/lbs is the upper limit for me to spot shots easily from prone. For me a 9.5lb 25 creedmoor is about perfect and has plenty of oomph at 700 yards which is as far as I can shoot in good wind conditions.

Currently working on a new 22 creedmoor shooting 88eld M that is very similar ballistics wise but should allow for a lighter weight rifle.

Stock design is important. Negative comb really helps keep the recoil impulse straight back and prevents muzzle rise

 

[memtb]

If it's to be a lightweight "hunting" rifle …..just how important is seeing the bullet impact! This may be important on steel at very long range…..but, it's pretty unlikely that you will see the bullet impact in most hunting situation.

With the light cartridges your using recoil should not be excessive with a properly fitted rifle with a quality recoil pad. For a pure "mountain" hunting rifle……weight and portability would be my prerequisites! For myself…..Adding length and bulk with a suppressor would be a negative. And again, for myself…..a brake on a "hunting" rifle is another big negative!

Obviously……many will disagree with my stand on these issues! But, we all "have our cross to bear"! memtb

 

[VinceMule]

We shot from Ridge to Ridge, more often than not, the animals were feeding or sleeping standing up. Often the animal was in their bed.

The mules would spot the animal in the bed where the animal was flicking its ear over a fly. The mule would stop and stare, might as well get the rifle out of the scabbard, as you could feel the mule tense up under you, knowing the shot was coming.

Wind in canyons can be horrific, leading to follow-up shots. IF you can see your impact, you know to aim a tad higher with more or less windage. We considered seeing the bullet impact a critical issue with the superb accuracy of the rifle being a given.

Seeing broken legs flopping, asses dragging on the ground with the animal hobbling off on two front legs from bad hits are complete failures as a sportsman and rifleman. See your hit, make an adjustment, and put them down hard on a follow-up shot if needed.

We found out that Relying on a Spotter is helter-skelter as many blink at the shot while others have a lack of focus unable to articulate how many inches low plus left/right the shot is. Distance the spotter is away from the shooter is critical, closer the better, almost touching. I almost got in a fight over a sorry-*** spotter once as I shot a big mule deer which was around 650 yds., wind in the canyon, an angle of slight downhill, 25 years ago. That was the LAST time I put myself in a position where I could not spot my own shots.

It really does not take much to kill an animal, even elk, but put the bullet in the right place, and know your anatomy. From seeing the bullet impact on the animal, you know if you need to chamber another round.

I have seen some nightmares with me and my mules trying to recover animals that were badly hit, you never forget those instances, especially in country where you or your mules could get hurt.

 

[Lenny Foffa]

My Weatherby Ultralight is my lightest rifle. 5 and 3/4 pounds empty as delivered from Weatherby . Then I added the Leupold Steel Rings and Bases ( 6 oz ) and a 2.5X to 8 VX3 Leupold scope (12Oz ) and three round of loaded 270 Win Ammo, I guess I'm at 6 and 3/4 pounds. The rifle came with a 24 inch Krieger Fluted S/S barrel. The light rifle shoots great, but it's not a sit at the bench and shoot 25 round type of rifle. The first shot even at 100 yards moves you off your sight picture with some force. I just sent the rifle back to Weatherby and had a Muzzle break fitted to it. It is noticeably tamer. I can hold through the shot . I have also just upgraded the scope to a new Leupold VX5 3X to 15X with a 30mm main tube and a lighted reticle. All and all, it has become a much more pleasant rifle to shoot. I think my .270m Win Load is a fairly hot Deer load for this rifle. 59.5 grans of H 4831SC , 130 Grn. Nosler Ballistic tip. Its my favorite deer rifle for 12 or 14 years now , with an impressive load. I dint think I could have dreamed up a better one back then. However, with today's technology , I'm sure even lighter, with sub MOA precision, is easily done. Best of luck to you !!!

 

[VinceMule]

The muzzle moves .200 of an inch during recoil, approximately. What you do to control that +/- 0.200 of an inch is critical, you have to be careful to not outsmart yourself. Establish a goal of the accuracy standard you want at what yardage. Shooting at 450-600 yards in a 6.5 lb rifle is not the same as shooting a 9.5 lb rifle, not by a long shot as lots of gun handling factors come into play. There are plenty of trained riflemen that can handle a 6.5 lb rifle at 600 yards, but it comes with a discipline.

There is a lot of empty-headed BS floating around from people that have never squeezed the trigger on a paper target a 600, must less an animal.

Animals are not hard to kill, just put the bullet where it belongs.

On every model 7 that I have owned, 243, 7/08, and 308, we had a Gentry muzzle break installed on the barrel, bedded the stock, put the forearm full of those stick-on wheel weights, and those spindly little guns put the bullets in the same hole with tuned reloads, without fail. The Little bit of weight in the forearm, mitigated the barrel flip, an unbelievably simple fix. I did not come up with the fix, I copied my brother. Those stick-on wheel weights will stay on at 100 mph, so their staying in place during recoil is no issue.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

My lightest rifle I own is about 8.5# scoped and suppressed. A 22" 6.5PRC/SI pushing a 140 Elite @ 3091fps. That is about as light as I want to go with a rifle with that kind of horsepower. I am building a lightish 22GT right now. Should come in about the same weight, maybe a couple oz lighter. But should produce far less recoil.

It is "snappy" for sure. Shots are able to be self-spotted however. But, you better have great shooting form. I am not a fan of "Ultralight" rifles. Too hard to shoot extremely well.

I misspoke on MV. 3091fps, not 3051fps. Scope is set on 15x. Hits were visible.

 

[Wilderness Blacktail]

Just curious but can't you get hearing protection for your horses ? Maybe cotton in the ears ? Would be better than nothing. Or would the horses not like it ? I know they have blinders for horses. But I never seen anyone using ear protection. But then I never hunted with horses.

They do make those yes! For horses in various shooting sports and warfare id assume. But id never have time or would forget and mess up. Lol

 

[Wilderness Blacktail]

We hunted off of mules/horses, three-man team or a four man team.

With a horse/mule carrying your gun, I do not see the need in having an ultra-light rifle. None of us in our party even thought about the need for an ultralight. Two guys hunted with BAR 7 Mag with the Boss which was tuned to be extremely accurate, and I hunted with a Browning Stainless stalker in 7 Mag which grouped 3/8". We saw our hits with 140g Partitions due to brakes. We never shot within 100 feet of the mules, and shots were away from the mules. A fourth hunting partner hunted with a 257 Weatherby using Weatherby 117g Factory ammo that just flatten elk in their tracks, the boy could shoot, and he had a brake also.

The shooting was a planned event, with the safety of the other men and mules being a priority. We hunted the roughest country you could imagine.

It would have to be a thin can to get the darn thing in and out of the scabbard. None in our party would ever wear his rifle slung over his shoulder while riding a horse/mule.

Again, I question the need and the value of having an ultra-light for horseback hunting, but guys do hunt very differently.

VM thanks for your reply. Thats an awesome system ya got there!

I mostly use my horses to access the high country and then to hit different drainages and such when up there. So i spend more time on foot droppin off the top down into deep n steep country. But i have jumped em while riding and had to get into action quick so thats the no brake deal for me.

But anyways thats why i prefer light handy rifles, to stay fresher so I can hit one more ridge before end of light.

Its a balancing act and I definitely went a lil too light for this particular caliber/load.