My sentiments exactly
so you missed the point too? wow... what's in the water around here??
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"propreitary" powders... :o
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so you missed the point too? wow... what's in the water around here??
Joe King
Well-Known Member
so you missed the point too? wow... what's in the water around here??
Nope I didn't, I get what your saying, pretty sure I'm not alone in that either.
But tell me this. Why would you waste the time to try to identify what powder a manufacture is using when it may or may no be available to you? Especially when you you have such a large resource available to you right at your fingertips that 99% of the time allows you to not only meet what factory loads do but exceed them in every way, safely.
I believe that what others are saying as to your posts being unsafe is that not everybody starting out reloading is going to understand how little they know, have an abundance of over confidence, and not ask questions. <-- thats the guy that can get hurt, if that guys get ahold of your info, processes it the wrong way, what have you.....
I get what your point is, I just don't agree with it an see to much possibilities of bad things happening, unless you do things correctly in the 1st place which is research and read/ follow the damned manual
)), which kinda leads me to believe that your just bored and fiddlin lolmyself I could care less what powder factories use, I don't want to know. Even when I go back to some old loads I made if I can't identify with 100% certainty what that powder is and know with 100% certainty that I still have THAT canister, then I get to have a pyro show in my fire pit and screw with the neighbors some
gunpower
Well-Known Member
He must have a nose better than any blood hound that I have ever known.
I have never heard any thing so stupid in my life.
I think that one day we will hear in the news about some idiot blowing him self up by trying out his nose on a powder load by smelling it!!! LOL
I have never heard any thing so stupid in my life.
I think that one day we will hear in the news about some idiot blowing him self up by trying out his nose on a powder load by smelling it!!! LOL
gunpower... continued delusional contagion... do you think I just smell a powder and load up a bunch of shells based on what I think it is? Surely you don't think that, right? Let's just hope you were trying to be funny, and I'll leave you the benefit of the doubt. To do any less would call your reading comprehension into serious question.
Joe... based on your last post, I think you're actually the ONLY one here who has read and understood what I've said... and it's fine not to agree with the practice, and it's of course all good not to care what powder the factory uses. But at least you've understood me--whether you agree with the practice or not--and I'm thankful for that.
I was beginning to think I'd fallen into the ignorance crater at Accurate Reloading!
That all said, if there's a guy out there who would read this thread and fail to comprehend my words to the extent that he does something to harm himself, I can't accept the blame for his foolishness. There's a modicum of common sense that should be a given before anyone undertakes the practice of handloading for firearms...
You know, it's funny... people make posts about loading reduced loads of Bullseye in rifle carrtridges--a practice I personally abhor for the obvious perils in doing so--and no one questions the wisdom of that. But... make a post regarding factory ammo, the powders they use, and the method by which one can safely attempt to discern what powder the factory is using... and the self-appointed mall cops have a feeding frenzy!
Joe... based on your last post, I think you're actually the ONLY one here who has read and understood what I've said... and it's fine not to agree with the practice, and it's of course all good not to care what powder the factory uses. But at least you've understood me--whether you agree with the practice or not--and I'm thankful for that.
I was beginning to think I'd fallen into the ignorance crater at Accurate Reloading!
That all said, if there's a guy out there who would read this thread and fail to comprehend my words to the extent that he does something to harm himself, I can't accept the blame for his foolishness. There's a modicum of common sense that should be a given before anyone undertakes the practice of handloading for firearms...
You know, it's funny... people make posts about loading reduced loads of Bullseye in rifle carrtridges--a practice I personally abhor for the obvious perils in doing so--and no one questions the wisdom of that. But... make a post regarding factory ammo, the powders they use, and the method by which one can safely attempt to discern what powder the factory is using... and the self-appointed mall cops have a feeding frenzy!
Kevin Thomas
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, I did read what you wrote, which is what kicked off the replys here. I pointed out that you are seriously misinformed, which you clearly and demonstrably are. I also pointed out that your ignorance could lead to someone (you, or someone foolish enough to take your advice) getting seiously hurt or killed. Along with several other posters, I pointed out some facets of this process which you were obviously completely unaware of. And still, you want to stick with your original position.
Have at it, and I'm done here. I only hope that anyone reading these posts will recognize the outright stupidity that you're so vehemently defending here. As I said, YOU are a bright and shining example of why internet advice MUST be taken with such a large grain of salt.
Have at it, and I'm done here. I only hope that anyone reading these posts will recognize the outright stupidity that you're so vehemently defending here. As I said, YOU are a bright and shining example of why internet advice MUST be taken with such a large grain of salt.
Sully2
Well-Known Member
Why do you care what powder they use?
Kevin----Very well put! I am done with this as well. The point has been made and anyone with cognative ability will come to this conclusion. How someone can even put this idea forward is beyond me. It is Very Wrong and following the OP's advice will get in trouble in a hurry....
It is worthy to note that no one has supported the OP's position. BTW I called a couple of people that I know who are involved in this kind of activity and the comments that they made cannot put in this post lol..
It is worthy to note that no one has supported the OP's position. BTW I called a couple of people that I know who are involved in this kind of activity and the comments that they made cannot put in this post lol..
Kevin Thomas
Well-Known Member
Appreciate that Boss. And yeah, I know Dave from my time with Sierra. Used to chat with him at trade shows and matches when he was still working out of East Alton. Haven't seen him in a while. Nice guy, and pretty sharp, as well.
I guess everyone has to retire at some point but he always had time to talk to me and we became friends over time. Funny---it is a small world!
It would be funny if he was still working and we could get him to post on this thread lol!
It would be funny if he was still working and we could get him to post on this thread lol!
well... I'm glad you guys are "done" with the obfuscation and rabble rousing, and Kevin, you did not understand what I have written, but you can at least say you're in some good company on that wise.
Ed asks... why do I care what the factories are using, and that is a good question.
Many folks come to me who report good results with particular factory loads, and they want to duplicate, as closely as possible, those load recipes.
We have identified Federal's factory load recipes for various batches of Gold Medal match ammo in .308 win... and Winchester 30-06, Federal 30-06, Win and Rem .270 130 grain loads... Hornady .243 win loads (which the Hornady tech actually told me to use 748, as that's what they use, he said, and it worked).
But folks... please get it... I do not advocate, nor do I ever practice putting "X" amount of a powder which I "guess at" into a handload, trying to duplicate a factory recipe.
My OCW load recommendations actually beat factory load recipes, so I don't do this for my personal use. I do it for folks who have an interest in learning, and just for curiosity's sake... and I've done it long enough to stand by my assertion that "proprietary powders" claimed by ammo makers are--more often than not--canister grade stuff.
This is not for the casual or inexperience reloader to attempt, by the way--I should likely have said that to begin with. I do understand the "knee-jerk" reaction by those who are not curious about these matters, and/or who do not understand the process well enough to undertake it. It would be nice, however, if such ones would withhold comment in lieu of that intellectual deficit.
For my part... I'm not done here. This has been a fun discussion.
Dan
Ed asks... why do I care what the factories are using, and that is a good question.
Many folks come to me who report good results with particular factory loads, and they want to duplicate, as closely as possible, those load recipes.
We have identified Federal's factory load recipes for various batches of Gold Medal match ammo in .308 win... and Winchester 30-06, Federal 30-06, Win and Rem .270 130 grain loads... Hornady .243 win loads (which the Hornady tech actually told me to use 748, as that's what they use, he said, and it worked).
But folks... please get it... I do not advocate, nor do I ever practice putting "X" amount of a powder which I "guess at" into a handload, trying to duplicate a factory recipe.
My OCW load recommendations actually beat factory load recipes, so I don't do this for my personal use. I do it for folks who have an interest in learning, and just for curiosity's sake... and I've done it long enough to stand by my assertion that "proprietary powders" claimed by ammo makers are--more often than not--canister grade stuff.
This is not for the casual or inexperience reloader to attempt, by the way--I should likely have said that to begin with. I do understand the "knee-jerk" reaction by those who are not curious about these matters, and/or who do not understand the process well enough to undertake it. It would be nice, however, if such ones would withhold comment in lieu of that intellectual deficit.
For my part... I'm not done here. This has been a fun discussion.
Dan
What am I missing here? Why is everyone so up in arms about this issue?
OP is stating that he finds a factory round that shoots well in a firearm he owns.
To attempt to replicate the round he starts with the same bullet and shell.
Then he deconstructs a factory load and measures the powder charge by weight.
He then attempts to determine the powder used by sight and possibly smell.
By looking up the loading data for possible matches he can exclude powders that would not fall within that weight range.
The powders that do look similar and could fall within that weight range for that shell and bullet combination can then be loaded using standard workups for pressure.
In the past, he has found combinations that meet or exceed the factory rounds.
I and many others have done this in the past to attempt to replicate factory ammo. The Federal Gold Metal Match (FGMM) 168 grain .308 round would be a perfect example of a round many attempt to replicate.
OP is stating that he finds a factory round that shoots well in a firearm he owns.
To attempt to replicate the round he starts with the same bullet and shell.
Then he deconstructs a factory load and measures the powder charge by weight.
He then attempts to determine the powder used by sight and possibly smell.
By looking up the loading data for possible matches he can exclude powders that would not fall within that weight range.
The powders that do look similar and could fall within that weight range for that shell and bullet combination can then be loaded using standard workups for pressure.
In the past, he has found combinations that meet or exceed the factory rounds.
I and many others have done this in the past to attempt to replicate factory ammo. The Federal Gold Metal Match (FGMM) 168 grain .308 round would be a perfect example of a round many attempt to replicate.
Viking... I can't tell you how much it means to have you post what you did.
Perhaps if I had communicated better, we would not have gotten off track.
I like the way you very succinctly wrote down what the process is. If I had communicated the matter as well as you did, maybe none of this would have happened.
To the others who have responded to this thread... let me take the blame for the confusion, and please accept my apologies for things I've said in response...
I just look at the sleuthing factory ammo thing mostly as a matter of curiosity... I'm just an inveterate tinkerer, taking apart engines and even watches... gotta see what makes 'em tick.
Viking, thanks again, very much.
Dan
Perhaps if I had communicated better, we would not have gotten off track.
I like the way you very succinctly wrote down what the process is. If I had communicated the matter as well as you did, maybe none of this would have happened.
To the others who have responded to this thread... let me take the blame for the confusion, and please accept my apologies for things I've said in response...
I just look at the sleuthing factory ammo thing mostly as a matter of curiosity... I'm just an inveterate tinkerer, taking apart engines and even watches... gotta see what makes 'em tick.
Viking, thanks again, very much.
Dan
barnesuser28
Well-Known Member
i dont see what the big deal is either. its not like someone is gonna pull a 223 remington factory load and decide to use Retumbo because they look somewhat the same. (that is if the powder is a stick powder)
