Progression of ELR Community

[Broz]

Jeff--In regards to burn rates. Do you think the ELR community will ever embrace the use of cellulose detonator tubes as a "burn rate stop gap" until some different propellants come about with different burn rates come available?

THEIS

Sorry THEIS, I have hardly any knowledge of the cellulous detonator tubes. But I do believe some companies are working with some ELR shooters inputs for needed burn rates.

Jeff

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Fred---Do you think we will go to more heat resistance alloys for barrels or continue searching for "external" cooling features?

The inertia of our current barrel alloys will take a great deal to overcome. 4140 for easier machining or 4150 for longer wearing. 416 for SS. Some other alloy will need to be within the realm of using the same drilling and rifling technologies and still provide some form of benefit. Alloys with lubricity, AFAIK, do not machine easy or finish easy.

Heat transfer to some other mass has been around a long long time. Hiram Maxim used fluids. Gatling type guns have used air mass with moving barrels GAU-8, GE and Dillon "mini-gun". Not practical for what we call ELR

If it's "crew served" I don't consider it ELR. One shooter, one spotter.

So

As far as I can tell, we are down to something around the barrel that will make consistency from cold to "hot" shots. So far that is Carbon Fiber, Titanium and Aluminum alloys. I'm hoping to give the Titanium cladding a try. I have a couple carbon wrapped barrels but have not fit them to an action.

Rigidity, consistency, weight. I know my 375 blank will not be rigid. It's 36" and .920 for a great deal of that. That is why I want to send it out for cladding.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I'm pretty sleepy. I hope that made sense.

Barrel cladding is next technology for the firearm end of things.

\\

 

[THEIS]

Hello Fred,

Yes it makes sense, Thanks.

So in regards to barrel alloy...
There are a couple International companies conducting research on utilizing a cobalt-chrome alloy for rifle barrels (Not lined but rather entire barrel); specifically the Talonite alloy which is essentially hot rolled and hardened Stellite but it is actually easier to machine than "Stellite" itself. These barrels are rather costly but they are showing great heat wear resistance.
I do not see them becoming "popular" since as you mentioned previously..the inertia of our current barrel alloys will be hard to overcome.

Anyone done a titanium barrel in USA yet?

I see barrel cladding becoming even more popular with Lothar Walther, Proof, Hardy, Teludyne, etc but it really is just a stick/string splint on a broken bone...better than without anything but not going to fix the bone.

THEIS

 

[ELR Researcher]

Drake lists a "Titanium" barrel - https://www.drakeassociates.us/product/drake-titan-barrels/

Stellite - last time I dealt with it was in the '70s where it was welded into place and ground as a bearing surface. I've, personally, never heard of machining it.

 

[THEIS]

Drake lists a "Titanium" barrel - https://www.drakeassociates.us/product/drake-titan-barrels/

Stellite - last time I dealt with it was in the '70s where it was welded into place and ground as a bearing surface. I've, personally, never heard of machining it.

Hello,

Those barrels are titanium coated, not really made from titanium. As Fred calls it...barrel cladding. Instead of putting titanium sleeve, gunwright sprays their titanium coating onto normal alloy barrel.

Search properties of talonite, it actually machines rather easy yet has heat and wear resistance as normal Stellite.

THEIS

 

[Deleted member 46119]

"talonite" seems to have a lot of positive properties. I have not found the bust rating. It's machining looks to be hard on the tooling.

The Titan seems to be a cladded barrel. Same a Teludyne?

There are plenty of advantaged to a clad barrel whether Carbon, Aluminum, Titanium or other reasonably rigid and light material.

There are things that can be done in the cladding operations like putting the barrel under tension.

Something I am interested in is magnetic support of the barrel. Taking the flex moment out of the action. My 375 HE may get that if I build a tinker toy "stock".

 

[THEIS]

Hello,

The Titan barrels are trademarked under Ti-Built from the "manufacturer" of the titanium process. Drake calls their barrels Titan but you can get directly from the manufacturer of the titanium coating process. Gunwright...the actual manufacturer of Titan barrels is different than Teludyne process. Gunwright actually cold sprays to preexisting barrel blank then machines coated barrel to OD specs desired. As to where Teludyne is using sleeve process.

THEIS

 

[THEIS]

Ahh.

Advances in ELR may include "military" technology brought "down" to civilian sizes and prices. Sighting augmentation. Sensing devices small enough to carry into the hunting or PRS fields that sends firing solutions to the optics. To have success it must be operable by just the shooter and spotter.

Swarovskis' new dual eye-piece for their spotting scopes is a perfect example of scaled down "military" technology in regards to sighting/observation systems.
It is essentially of cheaper option of "Big Eyes" binoculars from Naval World.

THEIS

 

[THEIS]

Hello,

Let us not forget about advancements of projectile design. We keep getting longer and longer for caliber projos to accommodate the heavier weights we keep going to.

Lots of International R&D is going into compressed polymer coating onto super heavy density alloys such as tungsten. Weight to length ratio is scaled back down. Such as a 220gr .308 projo with same length as a 190gr .308 projo.

THEIS

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Tungsten is a great heavy weight, we all know the challenges.

Expense
Matrix carrier to that a solid core is not classed as armor piercing.
Jacket.

I wish I had the money and tooling, I've got time and ideas.

 

[THEIS]

Tungsten is a great heavy weight, we all know the challenges.

Expense
Matrix carrier to that a solid core is not classed as armor piercing.
Jacket.

I wish I had the money and tooling, I've got time and ideas.

Hello,

So glad that I do not have to "color within the lines" in regards to AP and non AP....that regulation limits R&D by the private citizen. Compressed polymer coated tungsten monolithics are showing some very good results gun)
Essentially a tungsten monolithic "undersized" in diameter then coated with a compressed polymer "sleeve". Another great thing with that is we can manipulate the tungsten shape for more KE or more penetration by having flat ended or pointed tungsten. Just have to tweak the polymer sleeve to get desired overall shape of projectile.

THEIS

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Hello,

So glad that I do not have to "color within the lines" in regards to AP and non AP....that regulation limits R&D by the private citizen. Compressed polymer coated tungsten monolithics are showing some very good results gun)
Essentially a tungsten monolithic "undersized" in diameter then coated with a compressed polymer "sleeve". Another great thing with that is we can manipulate the tungsten shape for more KE or more penetration by having flat ended or pointed tungsten. Just have to tweak the polymer sleeve to get desired overall shape of projectile.

THEIS

Darn, that sounds super cool and not civilian.

As you know there are things that can be done with the internal shape of the tungsten core to effect gyroscopic stability as well.

While it is currently beyond my willingness level in investment of time and money, a matrix tungsten core in a jacket would be cool. Say non-franging copper/tungsten.

Is this my opening for discussing higher sectional density?

 

[THEIS]

Is this my opening for discussing higher sectional density?

Hello,

I am listening....

THEIS