Progression of ELR Community

[Deleted member 46119]

Now just need a new cartridge case design

THEIS

Well, solving that kind of problem is what I do. More parameters and goals stated would get me further.

I know we can stretch the 505 Gibbs based designs (belted or not) to the same aspect ratio as a 300 RUM and it will still work. Will it achieve the goals, not so sure.

The 50 BMG based designs have action size challenges.

I've thought and drawn up alternatives. How to produce the brass prototypes. Challenges are now to product the brass. Try out now to make up the projectiles I'm envisioning are 3d printable for prototypes.

 

[THEIS]

Well, solving that kind of problem is what I do. More parameters and goals stated would get me further.

Hello,

Have more goals/desires listed in the 2 mile cartridge thread yesterday.

Thanks,
THEIS

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Hello,

Have more goals/desires listed in the 2 mile cartridge thread yesterday.

Thanks,
THEIS

Yup, read that. Made a design based on the specifications of the 9x85. It's OK.

I'm interested in where Ed is going with swagging down 50BMG. Later of course a full brass run could be made.

 

[THEIS]

Yup, read that. Made a design based on the specifications of the 9x85. It's OK.

I'm interested in where Ed is going with swagging down 50BMG. Later of course a full brass run could be made.

I seen the information he wrote on that too!!
Maybe cartridge line with same boltface but different lengths such as x75, x85, and x95?? Then neck them up or down for projectiles desired but all from same brass parent.

THEIS

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I seen the information he wrote on that too!!
Maybe cartridge line with same boltface but different lengths such as x75, x85, and x95?? Then neck them up or down for projectiles desired but all from same brass parent.

THEIS

Working on it.

It is quite a process to swag down the BMG brass. Perhaps at some point we will reach a time when "basic" brass can be manufactured by Bertram or Jamison.

I am in favor of the BMG primer pocket in this class. It should help ignition in with the long powder column.

 

[JeffVN]

+1 on BMG Primer Pockets. Ignition has been a fairly frequent issue with the CheyTac sized cases and the standard magnum primers (like 215 or 215M).

I know of 3 different 50 boltface prototypes that are in development right now to slot into the 2 Mile cartridge zone. Two are based on 50 BMG brass, cut down and necked down; the other is based on .416 Barrett brass (not very consistent if the necks are any prediction of the rest of the brass cases).

Jeffvn

 

[THEIS]

Hello,

Absolutely on the BMG primer capability.

Nice to see you here Jeff

So now that case design is being discussed....is the next true "step" in case development and design to perfect the utilization of high pressure steel cases or high pressure steel based case?

THEIS

 

[Alan Warner]

Theis;
That may be one avenue to look at in the future. I've yet to see the velocity limit of our 375/ BMG. Case/shoulder design has a good influence on achievable velocities. I don't think steel will be needed till we look for more than 3700ish fps.
Powders in development now are going to have more immediate positive results in the short term.
alan

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I agree with Alan. Powders are one of the most important factors. Ignition of the powder.

Steel cases have some problems.
Steel to steel galling/welding at high pressures.
Higher wear on the action and chamber.

Just starters.

Some very interesting physics start when we get to the 3700 fps area.

 

[JeffVN]

Theis - I tend to read more than I talk on the ELR forums, but every once in a while I make a comment.

This particular issue is of particular interest to me, since I am developing a BMG boltface based 2 Mile Rig. I'm looking at case designs running (220-250 gr. H2O).

Powders with the proper burn rates for these case designs are a key factor - assuming you can ignite them consistently (but not nearly as much fun to discuss as bullet designs). Looking at this from a slightly different perspective, I've wondered if different barrel materials will generate similar evolutionary leaps forward in cartridge designs and/or usages that today are simply uneconomic. All of this design and product innovation and development is happening as I type. Very exciting.

Velocity / Speed. In the long run, simply going faster with current bullet designs probably isn't the best answer. Even so, it certainly provides a short term gain and potentially a competitive advantage. More speed + more efficient flying projectile designs are a wicked combination.

Jeffvn

 

[THEIS]

Looking at this from a slightly different perspective, I've wondered if different barrel materials will generate similar evolutionary leaps forward in cartridge designs and/or usages that today are simply uneconomic.

Hello,

lightbulb If my memory serves me right...that has been talked and looked at since about 2007 between Lutz and NC. Way back before Lutz produced the non flying "Viking". I tried to research a couple years ago to see if any progress had been made on the barrels you speak of but I did not find anything from NC.

All the "progress" being witnessed today was just a "whisper" 15 years ago, so just imagine what the whispers of today will bring us

That is what I like to focus on, such as:
Titanium cut rifled barrel or the advanced barrel materials you referring to.
Tungsten or other extra dense alloy projectiles polymer coated.
Case designs and materials that achieve the "rocket propulsion" burn columns at higher pressures than we utilize today.
AND last BUT not least...the support equipment required to make ELR of today just LR of tomorrow.

THEIS

 

[Alan Warner]

Well, If I had the engineering background to support some of it, I'd pursue development of ceramic barrels first. Powder chemistry second.

Alan Warner

 

[THEIS]

Well, If I had the engineering background to support some of it, I'd pursue development of ceramic barrels first. Powder chemistry second.

Alan Warner

Hello Sir,

Powder metallurgy such as wright-built barrels?

Wright-Built™ Custom Build Barrels Gunwright is introducing a new method of barrel manufacturing. This patented process is under development and will revolutionize the shooting industry. We are creating a barrel from powder metallurgy which consists of three stages:
Tungsten carbide bore and chamber
NASA approved hard material layering
"Ti-Built' Titanium Cold Sprayed outer shell that makes the form complete
Benefits to this new manufacturing technique are many:

Light-weight design
Hard long lasting bore
Superior accuracy


THEIS

 

[THEIS]

Hello,

Seems like we (as Industry) should be further ahead of where we are currently at in regards to barrel alloy and manufacturing...
Here are some R&D projects that were ran and funded several years back, specifically in regards to advancement of barrel alloy and manufacturing:
2002 https://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/detail/333848
2002 http://www.asminternational.org/doc...p047.pdf/6c94f7cd-7b3b-435a-8de8-2704b32abfed
2003 https://www.google.com/patents/US7197986
2005 https://sbirsource.com/sbir/awards/...ed-ceramic-technology-lightweight-gun-barrels
2005 http://www.arl.army.mil/arlreports/2005/ARL-TR-3417.pdf
2006 https://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/detail/224499
2006 https://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/detail/224503
2007 http://ciar.org/ttk/mbt/papers/isb2...ycled_ammunition.huang_conroy_carter.2007.pdf
2010 https://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/detail/7023
2013 https://www.google.com/patents/WO2013154930A1?cl=en

THEIS