Precision Hunter

[Phil Rizzo]

Sad but prevalent fact.
Disgusting from any angle to honest people.
But the sheep fall right in line anyhow.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

Sad but prevalent fact.
Disgusting from any angle to honest people.
But the sheep fall right in line anyhow.

FACT.

...But mywikifacetweet said so...

 

[WA Coyote]

Only .007 total variance with the Hunter ammo, with 90% being within .005 is pretty darn good. I'd venture that most handloads are about that same tolerance.

I've killed a bunch of stuff with the 103 PH 6 Creed factory ammo, including deer out past 500 and a couple coyotes in the 700-800 yard neighborhood.

I've also had no issues reloading the brass, but I've only used the 6mm Creedmoor stuff.

 

[Korhil78]

Only .007 total variance with the Hunter ammo, with 90% being within .005 is pretty darn good. I'd venture that most handloads are about that same tolerance.

I've killed a bunch of stuff with the 103 PH 6 Creed factory ammo, including deer out past 500 and a couple coyotes in the 700-800 yard neighborhood.

I've also had no issues reloading the brass, but I've only used the 6mm Creedmoor stuff.

Are you saying that most handloaders have a .005 tolerance? I keep mine to +\- .001.

 

[WA Coyote]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, MOST handloaders. If you're really holding all your ammo to the exact same length, +/- .001", then you do not fit into the "most handloaders" category. You fit into the "incerdibly anal retentive handloaders" category. Nothing wrong with that, just not what MOST handloaders do.

I'd also debate the necessity of +/- .001" in "hunting ammo". But hey, I've only used the ammo in question to kill a couple dozen deer and a truckload or two of coyotes, out to ranges just shy of 1/2 mile.

Are you adjusting your seating die with every loaded round?

If not, then I seriously doubt you're truly getting .001" variance in CBTO length, as bullets will vary more than that. If you are, I'd love to hear what dies, bullets, and method you use to ensure such microscopic precision. Seems like I could learn something.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

Try some Wilson seaters if you think .001 is hard to achieve.

I'm talking about using Berger Hybrids, specifically.

 

[WA Coyote]

Certainly MOST handloaders use Wilson seaters.

I've got a couple of Wilsons, they're great. But honestly, the ammo they load isn't any more accurate than the same loads built with Redding or even Lee dies.

I'd love to see the box of bullets that all has the identical measurements from tip-to-ogive, or from point of die contact to ogive. That's where a lot of the variance will be introduced. ESPECIALLY when talking hunting bullets.

 

[ObiJohn]

I wonder if the variance is caused by the seating die moving slightly or because the bullet shape varies enough to create the difference in seating length. Every reloading die I've ever used (or heard of) touches on the ogive of the bullet, not the tip, so if there's any variance in the shape of the ogive you're going to get a variance in the OAL of the cartridge.

Or, build-up of crud between the case holder/ram and the bottom of the die in a manufacturing environment? Or...?? Or, if the bullet ogives are very consistent but the tips vary within 0.003" +/-?

The OAL variance is a metric, but if the bullet moves within 0.001" before it hits the lands because it's tip variance, not bullet seating variance, is it a meaningful metric?

 

[WA Coyote]

Dies don't typically index off the ogive, they index off someplace between the ogive and the tip. On a 7mm die, that's probably somewhere in the .180-.220 diameter area of the projectile.

Pretty easy to pull the seater and measure the ID of the hole. Sometimes, with secant ogive VLD type bullets, you can hit the tip before the index diameter, hence the prevalence of "VLD seaters".

 

[Phil Rizzo]

Certainly MOST handloaders use Wilson seaters.

I've got a couple of Wilsons, they're great. But honestly, the ammo they load isn't any more accurate than the same loads built with Redding or even Lee dies.

I'd love to see the box of bullets that all has the identical measurements from tip-to-ogive, or from point of die contact to ogive. That's where a lot of the variance will be introduced. ESPECIALLY when talking hunting bullets.

Do you see similar run-out with standard seaters and Wilson?

 

[WA Coyote]

We're not talking run out, we're talking CBTO length.

I would agree though, that runout is consistently a little better with the Wilson. Reasons for runout are not necessarily isolated to seating though.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

We are supposed to be on Precision Hunter if you want to speak of topics….and yes a "little better" is mighty close to zero in my experience.
Redding, Whidden, RCBS etc compared.
My sizers and shell holders must be up to task

 

[WA Coyote]

Were there runout readings on the original post? If there were, I failed to see them.

What is your experience shooting the ammo in question?

 

[Shane Lindsey]

Post 6. No run out was tested.

Shot ok for factory ammo. I didn't give it too much attention as I was just anxious to shoot the rifle and get the scope on. Tried to reload some of the brass and pockets were loose.