Practical Hunting Accuracy - Truth and Reality

[memtb]

1 MOA means a new barrel

In a hunting rifle! Are we talking a carrying around rifle, while putting several miles per day in rough country……or…..carrying it in a vehicle?

I think that many of us have a different definition of "hunting rifle"! memtb

 

[3chester]

I've had quite a few total factory rifles that hold 1 MOA. A 222 Rem and a 308 Win were definitely capable, of fine accuracy.
I have notes on the 308 Win.
20 shots 4, 5 shot groups without letting the barrel cool. 98° windy 15 to 20 mph. 4000 rds on factory barrel Rem 700 police.
Group 1 5 shots .817" 3 .342"
Group 2 5 shots .867" 3 .469"
Group 3 5 shots .725" 3 .332"
Group 4 5 shots .927" 3 .329"
7000 rds on Factory 308 barrel same rifle
4, 3 shot groups.
.364," .187,".105," .303" for an average of .239"
The best groups were 5 shots 1400 yds 7.812"
The best at 1000 yds recorded was 3 shots 1.516" 2 into the same hole, 5 shots 5.148"
I mostly shot 3 shot groups, from the old sniper craft days, never shoot more than 3 shots from one position. I have recorded 9, 3 shot groups average 4.913" at 1000 yards.
Shot chicken eggs at 1000 yds with a factory 700 308 Win Police rifle 26" barrel. 3 hits on one egg group 3 shots .452" 4 shots into .540" and 5 into 1.486" at 1000yds...bullet holes behind the egg. Wrap them in plastic and they take more than one hit, and hit one on the 2nd try... some lucky shots, plus a daisy flower 1 st shot at slightly past 1000, just slightly off center off of a 1/4" thick 3/4" diameter yellow center. Used this rife to dispel alot of information about bullets destabilizing, and transitioning, taking the worst 30 cal bullet shooting at low velocity of 2750 fps, .263 BC going subsonic at 700 to 750 yds shot 3 into 7" and bouncing around a empty 3.5" x 10" tall plastic container, at 1000 yards. 60 MOA drop velocity down to 868 fps and 217 ft/lbs. All done 20 yrs ago with a factory Rem 700 rifle, with factory barrel... the no go would chamber with barely a slight resistance, and the fired case could take a full grain more Varget than the following custom barrels, running 3046 fps in a factory 26" for 8000 rds of accurate shooting, and alot of abuse, barrel cooling was not considered, until the target is obscured by heat waves coming off thr hot barrel...it's a tool, to be used, and discarded.
Then I rebarreled the action several times ...in 308 of coarse, plus a bunch of others..in 308.

This was probably done with a scoped rifle, what brand, model ,and power setting on the 1,000 yard egg groups. Good shooting.

 

[Mikecr]

What kind of rest do you use in the field for better than 2.5" groups? I need one.

Harris bipod in the dirt, rear monpod, field free recoil.
You do need it

 

[Phil Rizzo]

Man we have to be 15' above the ground to see 50 yds in this swamp.
Unless it's been bulldozed.
I would enjoy that stability you have though.
Best I can do is from sandbag in the window of a shooting house and rear bipod while in a chair.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Unless you know of an animal with 8'x8' vitals.

Blue whale?

 

[lancetkenyon]

6" round steel @ 608 yards

 

[Phil Rizzo]

I don't want to shoot off the ground anymore Mikecr, I want a concrete slab.!

 

[44-40]

Shoot a 50BMG off the ground, the first time is a learning experience...seems like a dump truck of dirt, sticks, leaves, and dust, falling all over you and filling your eyes with dust. Won't do that again...gotta cover the ground for the brake.
What's really fun load up a 10 rd mag of 50BMG, get back 100 yds from a rock pile. Empty the mag as fast as you can, right port, left bolt, finger is always on the trigger so you can shoot fast...huge chunks of rock flying through the air, with a giant cloud of rock dust, and a cloud gunpowder smoke.
This 50BMG shot 51 caliber 5 shot .6" group at a hundred once with APIT and RL 25. The 50BMG shoots garbage powder, like IRECO 85, IMR 5010, H870, pretty well ...as well as H50 BMG, US86 and Trail Boss and Red Dot. Recoil ain't bad but there is a difference in 647 and 750 & 800 gr. bullrts.
It has 1500 rds on it, it is usually dead on cold bore...it will hit a half inch square 1st shot.
You can actually shoot the back of another bullet stuck in thick steel and drive it on through. Subs are accurate too, and APITs detonate on plywood at subsonic speeds...it is a factory rifle, with a 3 shot MOA guarantee, and, it does that alot, 5 shots, the barrel heats up and 1 1/4," to 1 1/2" are more common but that is with military 647 gr FMJ...not a match bullet. I have shot 70 rds of 50 BMG in one setting... the unbraked 416 Rigby only 18 rds, but it has shot close to half MOA with 400 barns and 3 shots ...solids go 1" to the right same height...plenty good for what it would be used for. The factory 338 Win Mag was hard to get 5 into an inch but it did and had to be bedded to accomplish that, but it's all factory after that. A hunting friend tried to buy the 338 off me for 20 yrs, saw me shoot squirrels and heads off grouse with it off hand, at close range..so it was accurate enough, and a good hunting tool for many years, for my type of hunting... never shoot from a bench. like once in 40 yrs as a guest ..quit the rifle club cause it was boring, and busy ...anything under 800 yds wasn't even considered a challenge, like shooting a tuna can and a 1/4" thick yogurt lid laying in the dirt on a log landing left by a logger at 820 yds 3 shots both hit once, one close miss over... for 20 yrs. LR shooting is as old as gunpowder, all the new calibers and gagets make it easier.
I shoot prone, sitting, off hand,... field accuracy is pretty darn good if ya practice. Old age and failing eyesight, just recovering from an eye injection, for ARMD, basically almost blind in my shooting eye, can not read with it...but in the Sunlight with a good scope I see crooked wavy reticle with a large dark spot, barely make out the target. I can still shoot a pretty good group, from the prone... it's just harder getting up. That's why the 70 rds of 50BMG on my 70th birthday...from the prone, of coares. Shoot what pleases ya, if the accuracy up to your ability and standards, it's most likely, good enough.

 

[cajun]

6" round steel @ 608 yards

Man that thing is quiet. What can is that?

 

[DoneNOut]

I took a long range shooting class earlier this year. In the power point presentation was this slide. I thought it was pretty interesting. My 6.5 PRC scored a 267 and over 20 shots, printed about a 1.25 moa. 3 shots were .3 moa and 5 about .5 moa all at 100 yds. My cold bore shot is right on the money. Which is good since this is my hunting rifle. I also hit the 1 mile target with this rifle.
View attachment 484224

First I've seen this predictive formula. I would have to ponder on this a bit to check the veracity.

 

[DoneNOut]

Must apply reasonable expectations accordingly to the firearm platform.

The display was done with factory offerings and factory ammo. The rifles were thin barreled stalker type rifles. It is no surprise the ave was 1.8 MOA. In fact, that was better than I expected by a lot! I see no point shooting these pencil barreled guns more than 3 times. The heat builds quickly and they begin to wonder after two shots in succession.

I had a 6.5lbs total weight Kimber 84 Hunter in 708. When I load developed for that gun, I only concerned myself with the first two shots fired cold. With good handloading I would see .0something MOA. 3 shots and I'd see the groups open a bit, .1s-.3s MOA. Shots 4 and 5 I was looking at 1.5 and more MOA size groups. However, I completely understood why that was happening and expected it. Time after time I could take that Kimber out and needle those first two shots. SUCCESS!

Now, if my LR and ELR rigs shot like that I would throw them in a dumpster, light it on fire, and push it off a cliff! (Minus scopes, accessories, etc, LOL) Think bout the differences though. Barrels are thicker, .850 or more at the muzzle, rifle total weight is heavier (I even add weights these rigs) triggers are 1lbs and less, so I fully expect to see 5 rounds in practically the same hole. 10 round strings I see .5MOA consistently. I will use these guns, what I call my "range guns" to LR hunt. Totally difference platforms being compared here.

 

[VinceMule]

I was first educated about gun weight in my love for Remington Model 7's. They are so light, muzzle flip while the bullet is still in the barrel is horrific. I added a Gentry muzzle break, and it helped a lot. My brother got the crazy idea to add those stick-on-wheel weights in the forearm, and all of a sudden, the Model 7s were shooting like 40x target rifles. Model 7s in 243, 7/08, and 308 shoot very, very tiny groups now. About 1 lb of birdshot in the butt made the balance, but these were not rifles used in hiking.

In the early 80s, I shot unturned blank barrel contours on my P. dog and Rock Chuck rifles. I made a sleeve out of 1 3/4" 416 SS that was 4" long and put that on the barrel right behind the muzzle break. The gun with that weight on the barrel immediately shot better with a tremendous reduction in barrel flip. I noticed that if I moved that weight up and down the barrel I could tune the load.

Light and handy rifles with short barrels are now what is popular, carrying enough ammo in the mag to ward off an Indian Attack, accuracy be damned.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Man that thing is quiet. What can is that?

TBAC Ultra 9 .308

 

[lancetkenyon]

I have to admit, I have almost no factory rifles. None actually if you discount my shotguns, AR, and 10/22s.