Possible New Bullet Venture
- Thread starter tangodown
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Hey All,
I talked with Len this afternoon about a company I am thinking about setting up that would make bullets suited to long range hunting, etc.. Len game me permission to get the pulse of the members here about what calibers, weights, and other characteristics folks would want to see used in long range bullets (hunting or otherwise).
So, what kind of calibers would folks be interested in?
What weights per caliber?
Other characteristics such bonded cores? Copper bullets? Bullets with a partial tungsten core?
What would folks expect to pay for a box of 50? (No, they're not free)
Please let me know if there are any other characteristics folks would like to see!
Thanks to one and all!
-- Peter
When I first came across this thread I got a good buzz and was certain the LRH crowd would push/pull the OP in the direction we should be heading, instead I got sort of a hangover headache from the backwards thinking that entailed ! the Idea presented WAS Long Range Bullets for HUNTING !
then we start talking about slow factory twists and AR and 223 guys expending bullets by the truckload at 100 ft .... WHO cares ? WE are talking long range.... not shooting up refrigerators and washing machines at a local dump with AR's, mini 14's and cheap factory rifles.......
We simply do not need more of the same bullets !! What is needed is where the current heavy weight high bc bullets stop.... make that the starting point and not look back....
otherwise you will create another micro brew beer with a different label !!!!!!
there was once on LRH a decent thread about .375 cal bullets that was derailed in a similar backwards thinking fashion that absolutely did no good for the potential of a heavy high bc bullet in that flavor.........
some of us here overthink things and attempt to include the vast majority of bullet slingers when we really should be looking out for each other and our sport, the others guys don't give a rats furry or shaved behind about the LRH crew ........
might as well tell the OP to cast a bunch of wheelweight bullets..............they will be easy to manufacture and cheap to buy
tangodown
Well-Known Member
Well, I've been stumped.by.my local planning board. I told them I would be.converting two of the three bays of my garage to keep startup costs low. I told.them that there would be no additional street traffic. I was going to use UPS and the USPS not selling out of my home to Joe six pack. They didn't want to heat it - I was.building a manufacturing facility and therefore I was in conflict with the planned use of the land... ha gotta be kidding me I said... let me get this right, because I was.a.dutiful citizen and brought this up... I'm being penalized by thinking out of the box. You want .e to blow scarce capital on building my own building or renting one (by the way I'm a.combat disabled vet and I don't.get around.very fast) At that point I was also told if I wanted.to eventually produce loaded.ammunition I could o my store 20 lbs o powder at a time - beck I have more than that right now (I didn't tell them that tho) The only good thing was that I passed my BATF interview with flying colors. They wanted to help me get a waiver from the zoning commission too.
Things are on the back burner until I can either 1) Successfully appeal the zoning decision or (2) find addition capital as I was playing on doing this on my dime. Suggestions? Abuse?
-- Peter
Things are on the back burner until I can either 1) Successfully appeal the zoning decision or (2) find addition capital as I was playing on doing this on my dime. Suggestions? Abuse?
-- Peter
DocB
Well-Known Member
Move to Wyoming or Montana! The entire east coast has gone or is going ultra liberal.
Sorry brother.
DocB
TheFishBox
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2010
- Messages
- 719
don't give up the 375 community is dying for heavy for caliber offerings. If a good long range 375 bullet with a bc of .9 was around I would buy a 375-408 in a minute.
Hired Gun
Well-Known Member
Peter, are you talking to Corbins in White City OR? If not you should. They will give you a lot of tips on getting set up. What is your property zoned for now? If it's not zoned right now getting it changed is near impossible. You will need every neighbor within about 1000 feet to show up and give their blessing. If any one says no it's over right there. Is there any mention of any home occupation? Ask about Herbalife or piano lessons. Ask about making 4 violins a year to sell on Ebay. Just setting a precedence. From violins to stamping out copper covered lead fishing weights and then when perfected, changing to bullets is a small jump. I would never mention loaded ammo.
As long as any home occupation is allowed I doubt the city would have much trouble with what you are actually going to be doing. A sturdy bench and a couple hand presses. About a 1/3 of 1 bay. No street signs, no power demands or fire risks, no hazardous chemicals, no noise, no profit for the first year or two. That's all they need to know and it's the truth. Don't be blabbing up what you hope to do someday but just what you are actually doing at the time. I'm afraid they are thinking automated ammunition factory (Nosler shop explosion) when all you are really doing is hand stamping fancy fishing weights. You can cross those future plans when you get there and have built up some solid capital and sales history to support the growth. Money has a way of solving problems. If it's not profitable you won't have $30,000 of junk taking up valuable garage space.
While waiting on licensing you should be practicing on one bullet. There is a pretty good learning curve to making bullets. This is why they are fishing weights at first. If you are not selling anything then it's not a business and none of the city's business. Not having an on site testing facility is going to be a huge inconvenience. I think getting test data is going to be one of the hardest parts. Probably have to give away a lot of product to get the data you need. Then when need be, if the product is sound and has a solid demonstrable demand getting start up money to go into production will be a lot easier. Even if you have to rent a small space in an industrial park.
As long as any home occupation is allowed I doubt the city would have much trouble with what you are actually going to be doing. A sturdy bench and a couple hand presses. About a 1/3 of 1 bay. No street signs, no power demands or fire risks, no hazardous chemicals, no noise, no profit for the first year or two. That's all they need to know and it's the truth. Don't be blabbing up what you hope to do someday but just what you are actually doing at the time. I'm afraid they are thinking automated ammunition factory (Nosler shop explosion) when all you are really doing is hand stamping fancy fishing weights. You can cross those future plans when you get there and have built up some solid capital and sales history to support the growth. Money has a way of solving problems. If it's not profitable you won't have $30,000 of junk taking up valuable garage space.
While waiting on licensing you should be practicing on one bullet. There is a pretty good learning curve to making bullets. This is why they are fishing weights at first. If you are not selling anything then it's not a business and none of the city's business. Not having an on site testing facility is going to be a huge inconvenience. I think getting test data is going to be one of the hardest parts. Probably have to give away a lot of product to get the data you need. Then when need be, if the product is sound and has a solid demonstrable demand getting start up money to go into production will be a lot easier. Even if you have to rent a small space in an industrial park.
davkrat
Well-Known Member
Living in California I'd love to see a long range VLD style bullet with a copper tin powder core. A tipped VLD solid copper would work too but I believe the Barnes and ETip style bullets need more velocity than lead core to expand and perform on game. I'd think a lead free core like in the Nosler lead free ballistic tip varmint rounds might work great at longer ranges and lower impact velocities. Perhaps even a solid copper base similar to the rear portion of a Partition and then a lead free expanding tip up front.
Something in the 150-170 grain range in .277, .284 and .308 would be fine with me. Good velocity and high BC in moderate magnum rounds like the 7mm Rem Mag.
Something in the 150-170 grain range in .277, .284 and .308 would be fine with me. Good velocity and high BC in moderate magnum rounds like the 7mm Rem Mag.
I am impressed that the BATF encouraged your work - nice.
You can fight the city hall people, but it might not be worth your time. Eventually, your equipment is going to draw more electrical power than most homes can supply, and to expand production, you will need to hire people. All mfg processes are noisy and / or make odors, so eventually the neighbors won't be that happy, even if they don't say anything.
At some point, you will outgrow your garage, and then have to shut down to move, stopping production just when success is at hand.
At the risk of sounding a bit odd, there is a web site called "kick starter", which allows people to come up with projects / product ideas that are larger than their own funding capacity. You write up a plan (does not have to be perfect or completely detailed) and how much money you need to move forward with it.
Some people offer a discount on early product purchases, or some "free samples" for people that make early contributions.
You will be completely surprised by how many people will contribute just because they are curious if it can work out. For example, my wife randomly came across a board game that looked interested and bought a "pre-sale" of it. She is super conservative, so it kind of shocked me (I don't mind, she can / does what she wants) but it just shows the appeal.
Consider to do a kick starter project for it, plan buying a small building with it to avoid large rent increases in the future. Make sure it has good heat, air conditioning, and exhaust to protect your health.
Just an idea.
You can fight the city hall people, but it might not be worth your time. Eventually, your equipment is going to draw more electrical power than most homes can supply, and to expand production, you will need to hire people. All mfg processes are noisy and / or make odors, so eventually the neighbors won't be that happy, even if they don't say anything.
At some point, you will outgrow your garage, and then have to shut down to move, stopping production just when success is at hand.
At the risk of sounding a bit odd, there is a web site called "kick starter", which allows people to come up with projects / product ideas that are larger than their own funding capacity. You write up a plan (does not have to be perfect or completely detailed) and how much money you need to move forward with it.
Some people offer a discount on early product purchases, or some "free samples" for people that make early contributions.
You will be completely surprised by how many people will contribute just because they are curious if it can work out. For example, my wife randomly came across a board game that looked interested and bought a "pre-sale" of it. She is super conservative, so it kind of shocked me (I don't mind, she can / does what she wants) but it just shows the appeal.
Consider to do a kick starter project for it, plan buying a small building with it to avoid large rent increases in the future. Make sure it has good heat, air conditioning, and exhaust to protect your health.
Just an idea.
