OK I'm going to learn how to use MOA instead of a custom dial. Scenario Questions

[73driver]

What is the angle of your intended target up or down from you ? I'm with Retiredsniper and Uncle yib get a good second focal plane scope with a mil retical, study on using it to range and hold for wind quartering , full force . It takes time in the field with the equipment you plan to use to get proficient with it . Once you have gotten proficient with this then you will have saved your money for all the other things that are nice to have .

Actually had our first hunt using a dialup for longer shots a couple years ago. My son, an Army Sniper just off active duty was the hunter/shooter. We were glassing country from 100 yards to 1500 yards away. When we spotted a buck I got on the LRF (we all have those now because I would be the last likely to buy such a gadget) and he got his rifle up. I lased the range and referred a drop card I made up the morning before before with a phone APP ( we all have phones too so all it cost was $20 or less for the Strelok Pro). I give him dial-ups and he tracks the buck and I tell him that the next opening is his best opportunity and I reconfirm range for his likely shot. Buck pauses in the opening, boom buck stagers down hill and drops. For long range shooting I believe a fellow hunter or dedicated spotter is essential. They can run a laser get range feed you the dial up and do it quickly and very precisely also a spotter is near a must have for after the shot. When you shoot with any caliber with umph you are not going to see your hit and the afterward. That and hiking 800 yards or so to where you think your quarry pilled up can be difficult with any kind of cover. Try crossing a drainage and heading uphill and realizing all the clumps of trees, brush or rock outcroppings you are sure your deer is under now all look the same. A spotter to guide you in is nice almost as nice as the range and dial-ups he gives you. Yes you can range with a MIL or even an MOA scope but LRF and current drops from an app are fast and precise.

 

[PApa Black]

Actually had our first hunt using a dialup for longer shots a couple years ago. My son, an Army Sniper just off active duty was the hunter/shooter. We were glassing country from 100 yards to 1500 yards away. When we spotted a buck I got on the LRF (we all have those now because I would be the last likely to buy such a gadget) and he got his rifle up. I lased the range and referred a drop card I made up the morning before before with a phone APP ( we all have phones too so all it cost was $20 or less for the Strelok Pro). I give him dial-ups and he tracks the buck and I tell him that the next opening is his best opportunity and I reconfirm range for his likely shot. Buck pauses in the opening, boom buck stagers down hill and drops. For long range shooting I believe a fellow hunter or dedicated spotter is essential. They can run a laser get range feed you the dial up and do it quickly and very precisely also a spotter is near a must have for after the shot. When you shoot with any caliber with umph you are not going to see your hit and the afterward. That and hiking 800 yards or so to where you think your quarry pilled up can be difficult with any kind of cover. Try crossing a drainage and heading uphill and realizing all the clumps of trees, brush or rock outcroppings you are sure your deer is under now all look the same. A spotter to guide you in is nice almost as nice as the range and dial-ups he gives you. Yes you can range with a MIL or even an MOA scope but LRF and current drops from an app are fast and precise.

Does the app work in a no cell service location?

 

[vancewalker007]

As the title says I'm going to try to learn how to use MOA instead of a custom dial to shoot out to 1000 yards. I have this scenario and was hoping some of you experienced hunters can walk me through the steps and where I should go to learn them.
Here's the scenario:

I'm glassing this basin and I see a nice bull and he's out there a ways. I use my rangefinder and he's at 650 yards. The Elk is on the edge of cover and slowly feeding into the trees and you have about 30 seconds to take this shot or lose the opportunity.
The wind is 15 mph from the right at 60 deg quartering to me. The temp is 30 degrees and the elevation is 6000'.
My ballistic chart for the 200 Gr ELD-X says I need to come up 10.8 moa.

What tool(s) are you using to get the dope for this shot and how long would it take you to get it? Can it be done this quickly in different conditions?

I've been hunting long range for 30 years and I'm not taking that shot if I only have 30 seconds. I've shot lots of Coues deer at ranges farther than 650 yards. For me 30 seconds is too short of a time for me to get elevation from my G7, get the right wind call, dial the elevation, settled into a rest that allows enough steadiness to shoot 650 yards, do the breathing and squeeze the trigger. The tricky things are the wind and the animal moving. There is a flight time factor involved and one step from an elk can cause a miss or gut shot. We killed an elk last year at a range much farther then 650, but no wind, the elk was not moving and at about the same level as us so we were shooting about 0 deg angle. That shot took a well over a minute to set up with no wind call. A 15 mph wind at an angle across a canyon can still be 8 or do mph. That's significant at 650 yards. With one of my LRMs that's about 17.5 inches of drift using your data.

So, with your scenario personally I wouldn't shoot.

 

[pony doctor]

This thread is getting focused in on MOA! Many have learned to think in this dimension and that is what I think makes it all work right. An Elk has an 18 inch diameter kill zone for example. at 600 yards, that is 3 MOA! Knowing this helps one to decide if he has defined a wind adjustment of 4 MOA, and the wind is not as you expected or calculated, it is entirely possible to wound an animal at that distance. Here, the solution involves a bullet designed to buck the wind, carry the distance within the 3 MOA or less, carry enough energy to be lethal etc etc considering the bullet may strike the point of the shoulder or ???? Do you take the shot or get closer? Dead calm practice says your bullet strikes within 1/2 MOA pattern. All's good but....... what if you need a 4 MOA correction and your wrong?

 

[73driver]

Does the app work in a no cell service location?

The app will work without cell service, its like a small hand held computer. Input for temp and humidity comes from a Kestrel Drop Bluetooth device cost $120. In my case we had cell service so in the mornings I would access local weather info and fill in temp and humidity on the app, phone has built in barometric pressure which is an important piece of the calculation, its more precise than your elevation. I used a pre made drop card for out to 500 yards and update it each AM at a convenient break in the action.

 

[connatter]

Why take a chance on getting the trophy of a lifetime? Stick with the turret made for the right elevation and be done with it

 

[msmith57]

As the title says I'm going to try to learn how to use MOA instead of a custom dial to shoot out to 1000 yards. I have this scenario and was hoping some of you experienced hunters can walk me through the steps and where I should go to learn them.
Here's the scenario:

I'm glassing this basin and I see a nice bull and he's out there a ways. I use my rangefinder and he's at 650 yards. The Elk is on the edge of cover and slowly feeding into the trees and you have about 30 seconds to take this shot or lose the opportunity.
The wind is 15 mph from the right at 60 deg quartering to me. The temp is 30 degrees and the elevation is 6000'.
My ballistic chart for the 200 Gr ELD-X says I need to come up 10.8 moa.

What tool(s) are you using to get the dope for this shot and how long would it take you to get it? Can it be done this quickly in different conditions?

learn to shoot your gun and raise up to hit the target. what's with all this fancy Dial it up crap???????

 

[Stgraves260]

As the title says I'm going to try to learn how to use MOA instead of a custom dial to shoot out to 1000 yards. I have this scenario and was hoping some of you experienced hunters can walk me through the steps and where I should go to learn them.
Here's the scenario:

I'm glassing this basin and I see a nice bull and he's out there a ways. I use my rangefinder and he's at 650 yards. The Elk is on the edge of cover and slowly feeding into the trees and you have about 30 seconds to take this shot or lose the opportunity.
The wind is 15 mph from the right at 60 deg quartering to me. The temp is 30 degrees and the elevation is 6000'.
My ballistic chart for the 200 Gr ELD-X says I need to come up 10.8 moa.

What tool(s) are you using to get the dope for this shot and how long would it take you to get it? Can it be done this quickly in different conditions?

Make a chart at 100 yard incriminates. 100 yards = .25" 200 yards = .5" 300 yards = .75" 400 yards = 1" and so on. For every 100 yards add .25". By the time you get to 1000 yards you will be at 2.5" for every click in your scope. You'll need to know this when getting your drop data. Also you'll Need a cosine indicator and a compass. I also use a mill dot master for those bad weather days when your electrics fail you. I made a sniper hunting log on what I see out in the field when I'm hunting. You'll need to know the measurements of what you are shooting so that you can use your mill dot master to engage your targets.

 

[DSheetz]

SHDeersniper second focal plane reticals stay the same size when you change power and thus can be used for ranging an animal if you know what the average size of that species is at the chest for example coyotes in my area run 22 - 24 inches at the front shoulder . Set your scope say on 10 power mark a 24 " target at 100 yards then read the mils move to 150 and read the mils ect . record those numbers for latter use . If I remember right the military used 18" as that's the average mans size from chin to belt buckle . You can find good info on the use of scopes for ranging now days as many books have been written on the subject by ex-military snipers as well as long range shooters.

 

[Ranger Rick]

If it was me I would use the Burris Eliminator III scope. Range finder built in , dot moves for the shot. You are good to 750 yards on a elk, they are big enough for a good reading 99% of the time for me any way.
Spend the money on this scope instead of buying the $1000.00 plus MOA scope. Use your moa scope for target , PD , etc hunting were you have more than 30 seconds to make the shot. Does not make sense to me to spend all that money on a elk hunt , all that vacation time and all that walking and rush the shot and or miss the shot. Pull up the Burris Eliminator III and in 10 seconds and I bet less , bang , animal is on the sod. MD

The Eliminator III is probably the #1 wolf scope in many parts of Idaho. Because time is of the essence!

 

[Yeager]

Good decision! MOA and Mil-DOT reticles and our basic understanding of how they can help have really improved the ethics and successes in LRH. However, regardless of yardage, the basic concept of being totally confident that your POA = POI should never be violated by time constraints. This website has given you plenty of valid suggestions on how to shorten that time and I suspect you have already taken many under consideration. For me, I would use up the "30sec" just in placing myself in the position to make the shot let alone all the necessary calculations. Good luck

 

[lyle2231]

As the title says I'm going to try to learn how to use MOA instead of a custom dial to shoot out to 1000 yards. I have this scenario and was hoping some of you experienced hunters can walk me through the steps and where I should go to learn them.
Here's the scenario:

I'm glassing this basin and I see a nice bull and he's out there a ways. I use my rangefinder and he's at 650 yards. The Elk is on the edge of cover and slowly feeding into the trees and you have about 30 seconds to take this shot or lose the opportunity.
The wind is 15 mph from the right at 60 deg quartering to me. The temp is 30 degrees and the elevation is 6000'.
My ballistic chart for the 200 Gr ELD-X says I need to come up 10.8 moa.

What tool(s) are you using to get the dope for this shot and how long would it take you to get it? Can it be done this quickly in different conditions?

What was your rifle zero? 10.8 moa sounds closer to a 300 to 600 yd come up.

 

[MAD10]

As most have said you have two choices...

First use a high end LRF and Kestrel 5700 which gives you real time data - plus you still have to identify the wind speed and direction at both your location and at the target.

However not everyone "wants to or can spend the CA$H" on those two items and that is not a problem

Second a drop chart and an inexpensive wind meter. I've been to a lot of shooting schools before and during when things got sexy in LR shooting- trust me I like sexy but there is a lot to be said for the - crawl, walk, run phases of training programs some of us experienced in the military. < I am not talking basic training with open sights > although that has its place in the fundamentals.
__________
Build a drop chart in MOA adjustments out to say 1000 yards in 100 yard increments. You can use a phone app like "shooter" or a free online program such as Gunwerks G7 program. Make sure to include a 5 or 10 mph wind hold values and the altitude you expect to be hunting at. You can get away with 1000' ft up or down altitude change with the same drop chart out to say 600-700 yards. No reading the ammo box for you MV you gotta use a chronograph.

Once you have the drop chart in hand. Go out and shoot it throughout the summer to get comfortable and learn if you need to adjust MV (i.e. truing) based on if you have any vertical dispersion.

You'll soon learn your "comfortable max range" and a lot about how you and your rifle shoot at distance - plus you'll learn to read the wind too.

I help several guys each summer in just this way. Almost all end up around the 600 yard comfort zone with their skillset and tools.

Good luck and "pm" me if you have more questions

 

[RDRNNR268]

We hold over and off if needed. Have drop charts every 25 yards to a 1000 yards.No time for all the BS. Sometimes you dont have time for all that. Just old time and the animal is dead. Time is of the essence and sometimes it is a very short window.