Ok I am not a big fan of the 6.5 Creedmore

[VLD Pilot]

Perfect over 2 decades ago. The hot-cor 140 with a .49 BC vs the 140 eld with a .64 bc has a 300 fps/300 ft lb difference at 1000 yards. There's the little difference. That's the difference between a 308 and 300 win mag. Ya, I'd say bullets can make non Magnums into Magnums from the old days.

 

[VLD Pilot]

It's just that today's cartridge standards have changed over the years. Yes all cartridges have stepped up there performance based on component superiority.

 

[BigGrizz]

Perfect over 2 decades ago. The hot-cor 140 with a .49 BC vs the 140 eld with a .64 bc has a 300 fps/300 ft lb difference at 1000 yards. There's the little difference. That's the difference between a 308 and 300 win mag. Ya, I'd say bullets can make non Magnums into Magnums from the old days.

I disagree with the claim that an ELD is a hunting bullet. I'm sorry but I don't think your making a direct comparison. External ballistics are one thing, and killing is another.

 

[VLD Pilot]

I disagree with the claim that an ELD is a hunting bullet. I'm sorry but I don't think your making a direct comparison. External ballistics are one thing, and killing is another.

I'm not trying to make a direct comparison. Read the previous threads. Simply saying today's hunting bullets are a huge improvement over bullets even 10 years ago. The opinion on whether the ELD-Match bullet is a good hunting bullet is a debate that will go on forever. I've killed dozens of big game animals with match bullets yet people still claim they aren't good for hunting. I won't get into that discussion on another guys post of a different subject. The OP was about the 6.5 Creedmoor. Someone stated it's not a good or sufficient elk cartridge. Again, debatable. Just saying that today's bullets make it as good as it gets for an elk round with the newest premium bullets available.

 

[bigngreen]

I am fascinated with the lack of knowledge about this round and the lack of knowledge of what it takes to hunt Elk. The BS about shot placement may work shooting off of a bench but it does not happen in the wild. If this were true we could hunt with a 22 and shoot for the eye and a direct path to the brain. Then there is the BS that this round having sufficient energy out at 500 yards, please.... read a ballistics table. E=MC squared

Then there is the animal. This is NOT a deer. This animal is 500 lbs with thick skin and heavy bones. What happened to the idea of an ethical kill? Why would you want to wound this animal and chase it to the next county or let it suffer until it dies?

This round is NOT sufficient for Elk! Read something! You want something for your kids or wife, spend the money on a 270 WSM and put a brake on it. Shoots flat, has adequate power, will really reach the 500 yards with plenty power and is light weight. I consider this to be a minimum.

I have taken several Elk and prefer my 300 WBY and my 300 WinMag. They both work well. As a final comment, I have seen 30-06 fail at 300 yards with a good hit. It only crippled the animal and spent the afternoon tracking a wounded animal.

Again, read something. Gain knowledge and be successful.

Speaking of BS!!

I've seen just about everything not kill an elk and the common denominator is the person on the trigger!!

 

[BigGrizz]

I'm not trying to make a direct comparison. Read the previous threads. Simply saying today's hunting bullets are a huge improvement over bullets even 10 years ago. The opinion on whether the ELD-Match bullet is a good hunting bullet is a debate that will go on forever. I've killed dozens of big game animals with match bullets yet people still claim they aren't good for hunting. I won't get into that discussion on another guys post of a different subject. The OP was about the 6.5 Creedmoor. Someone stated it's not a good or sufficient elk cartridge. Again, debatable. Just saying that today's bullets make it as good as it gets for an elk round with the newest premium bullets available.

Your saying that your not going to talk about bullets and then end your statement by talking about bullets. It is a relevant matter and this thread is already a few months old only being brought back to life after somebody wanted to take a shot at creedmoors.

To your last point, there have been quality bullets for sometime now. An amount of time that can be counted terms of a decade. Why is it now that people think they can use something that historically/traditionally has not been listed as an elk cartridge?

I believe I made this point earlier in this thread back in January, but it still holds true. I also think the hunting community is flirting with bad ethics, and let's not forget what some think of long range hunting itself.

 

[VLD Pilot]

Your saying that your not going to talk about bullets and then end your statement by talking about bullets. It is a relevant matter and this thread is already a few months old only being brought back to life after somebody wanted to take a shot at creedmoors.

To your last point, there have been quality bullets for sometime now. An amount of time that can be counted terms of a decade. Why is it now that people think they can use something that historically/traditionally has not been listed as an elk cartridge?

I believe I made this point earlier in this thread back in January, but it still holds true. I also think the hunting community is flirting with bad ethics, and let's not forget what some think of long range hunting itself.

We'll it's a matter of opinion. Simple as that. When 100s of guys are killing elk with 6.5 caliber bullets out west and guides are ok with it, I suppose that sums it up. Many guys use big bore Magnums to make up for there lack of accuracy and think that's ok. Think I'll take accuracy over Magnums. Like you said, it's an old thread but obviously still has us hashing out differences and different opinions.

 

[VLD Pilot]

Speaking of BS!!

I've seen just about everything not kill an elk and the common denominator it the person on the trigger!!

About sums it up.

 

[BigGrizz]

We'll it's a matter of opinion. Simple as that. When 100s of guys are killing elk with 6.5 caliber bullets out west and guides are ok with it, I suppose that sums it up. Many guys use big bore Magnums to make up for there lack of accuracy and think that's ok. Think I'll take accuracy over Magnums. Like you said, it's an old thread but obviously still has us hashing out differences and different opinions.

Now that wasn't so hard was it?

Still have to hit the critter with that "big bore magnum" as well, so accuracy isn't the issue a lot of guys want to make it out to be. Lots more guys running around with run of the mill elk cartridges than 338s like me.

Shoot it with a 6.5. It's still a free country and states allow it. It's just not an elk cartridge, well I guess until recently when cartridge manufacturers and media started pimping them.

Mostly people are tired of the BS noise around LR shooting, and I think a good counter to that is to get back to talking more about hunting and less about shooting.

 

[bigngreen]

Your saying that your not going to talk about bullets and then end your statement by talking about bullets. It is a relevant matter and this thread is already a few months old only being brought back to life after somebody wanted to take a shot at creedmoors.

To your last point, there have been quality bullets for sometime now. An amount of time that can be counted terms of a decade. Why is it now that people think they can use something that historically/traditionally has not been listed as an elk cartridge?

I believe I made this point earlier in this thread back in January, but it still holds true. I also think the hunting community is flirting with bad ethics, and let's not forget what some think of long range hunting itself.

Growing up some of the best elk country no one used a magnum, most shot 30-06 on the big end and many used a 243. The need for a magnum to kill an elk is a new thing, a Creedmore is just more of the same thing we've been filling freezers with for decades!!

After taking a LOT of guys out on elk I always want to see them bring the rifle they are most familiar with and usually they bring a deer rifle, the guys who have elk rifles are always the guys that screw the pooch!!

 

[VLD Pilot]

Well, Jim Zumbo being a well known elk hunter and writer seems to think the 270 is a very fine elk rifle and perfectly capable of grounding the biggest of elk. Those were his comments in 2003. Lots of years have passed since then. The .270 isn't what most consider to be " an elk cartridge". Again, to each there own. Growing up the big 30s thru the 338 win mag were the top elk dogs on the mountain. I owned a 338 win mag and used it on elk hunts. Knowing what I know today, having much more time behind alot of different rifles, I now know, I was over gunned or should say had more gun than I really needed. I don't believe there's such a thing as over gunned by the way. I think a good constructed 140 or heavier bullet in a 6.5 caliber or bigger is fine. Years ago if I said that, I think I'd be escorted out of elk camp. Today, about half the rifles are 6.5 or 7mm. Big bores still work but aren't the rule. More the exception.

 

[BigGrizz]

Growing up some of the best elk country no one used a magnum, most shot 30-06 on the big end and many used a 243. The need for a magnum to kill an elk is a new thing, a Creedmore is just more of the same thing we've been filling freezers with for decades!!

A creedmoor is not more of the same. Going back decades the low-end of a list of elk cartridges would start with a Jack O'Connor special. You're also neglecting the conversation revolving around LR.

Yeah, sure people shoot elk with 243s. I know a guy that started his kid with it. Doesn't make it one of the standards. It's only recently that the list of standards has expanded. Has bullet construction progressed positively? Yes. But not by revolutionary leaps. Accubonds, ballistic tips, partitions, X bullets, etc have been around for some time, and they didn't make anything less than a 270Win an elk cartridge standard.

 

[BigGrizz]

Well, Jim Zumbo being a well known elk hunter and writer seems to think the 270 is a very fine elk rifle and perfectly capable of grounding the biggest of elk. Those were his comments in 2003. Lots of years have passed since then. The .270 isn't what most consider to be " an elk cartridge". Again, to each there own. Growing up the big 30s thru the 338 win mag were the top elk dogs on the mountain. I owned a 338 win mag and used it on elk hunts.-Agreed Knowing what I know today, having much more time behind alot of different rifles, I now know, I was over gunned or should say had more gun than I really needed. I don't believe there's such a thing as over gunned by the way. I think a good constructed 140 or heavier bullet in a 6.5 caliber or bigger is fine. Years ago if I said that, I think I'd be escorted out of elk camp. Today, about half the rifles are 6.5 or 7mm. Big bores still work but aren't the rule. More the exception.-30 and 338 aren't big bore. Just big compared to what Europeans like to shoot in their world and what companies here have started to pimp.

 

[Don A Parsons]

When I see the caption to this forum I only see the vast amount of territory to cover.

Long Range hunting to me is the distances through the valley,,, A Long Range to Hunt...

The shooting part is what we own... Koodoos to those that can do what ever they want... None of my business since I look after Me... Ha...

The Web and YouTube have oodles of long-range shots by some awesome shooters,,, of course we only see the successful ones since that's what sells the idea... I can't buy into this since I have my limits...

I re-learn this every year,,, go for a slow pace jog,,, then try to free hand a gopher at 87 yards with a 22 rimfire... See what I mean... Try this same thing with a 100 meter dash on a big buck at 100 to 140 yards. LOL...

This might of worked in my 20's,,, now days I'm luck to hit a 8 foot square barn door at a 100 free hand with out the run... Ha...

My lead in F Class is an incredible hunter and shooter,,, He's a dial up guy,,, and lots of time to get it off,, he has his limits,,, along with the rest of our crew including Me...

My guess is that the majority of shooters that visit this forum know their limits,,, I'd bet a small sum that ethical shooting is at the top of the list...

The best way to find out is start a thread to find out...

It was said loooooong ago that the majority of shots taken on game range from 40 to 140 yards,,, 87 ish % are taken under the 140... Purhaps the line has shifted over the years,,, would it be 200,,, maybe 220 / 240 ish... Beyond that with a good set-up and a well planted rifle...

Let's not forget a few things,,, sometimes the 1 Gun shooter that shoots 1 kind of boolit and load is more likely to reach out there where most folks call it quits...

Hopefully I fall back into this in my years ahead.

Like the old guy said... Fear the 1 man that only shoots 1 gun all the time... They know their iron and they play for keeps...