Nosler Accubond Long Range problem

[whitely]

Could explain why the bullet that was supposed to take over the long range hunting market pretty much can't be found.

One thing I really like about the Berger company is when they were having problems with the Generation 1, 338's at high velocities, they came right out and said that they were having a problem. No clandestine BS. They just put their cards on the table. When it was fixed, they announced that and what they did to fix it and then put them on the market. I have a pretty high trust factor for Berger. Now if I could just find them.

I know people who bought 10 boxes of those things, all without any sort of testing! I assume the great ammo scare of 2013 turned otherwise sane people into post apocalyptic ammo hoarders.

I'm sticking with Berger. That company has a history of honesty - such as when they revised their BC's. I also think they do more testing and prototyping.

 

[bigngreen]

If this bullet won't hack over 3000 fps it's virtually worthless, a 270 Win won't launch a 150gr bullet with enough velocity to require a bonded bullets so I would think the most interest in this bullet would be WSM and WBY shooters, both of which will be shooting these over 3000 fps.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

As the song says:
Ya gotta know when to hold 'em
know when to fold 'em
know when to walk away and
know when to run. . . . .

See pics . . . . Self explanatory I think?

Loaded up a couple 277 150 ABLRs and sent them down range to 300 ahead of 99 grains of US 869 for a MV of 3350 or so. Guessing 3 MOA group of the two.

As accuracy since messing with these has gone to Hades I switched stocks to a known good one, in case the A-5 bedding went south. I also wanted to try PP 4000 MR as it has been reported to be a similar burn rate as 7828ssc.

I loaded 85 grains of 4000, 3 grains more than the 7828ssc load which pokes along at a little better than 3400.

Two bangs later I learned the 85 grains was just a little hot. Enough bolt lift that it wouldn't be good for a hunting situation. Velocity was a few FPS over 3500.

I had reached the goal of finding max pressure that I was willing to go to.

A 300 yard stroll revealed whatcha see. . . .

As the rig accuracy seemed to got to hell in a hand basket after 8 shots, which showed really good potential, I have to ask; What are the odds of a bullet that acts as this one does affecting long term accuracy?


All three loads that used to be around and usually less than 0.50 MOA are now running about 2 MOA.

I have a woof hunt coming up Monday and have to leave this rig behind. But that's ok as the woof hunt is part of my grandson's trophy bull hunt. If his peckerwood 308 w/150s don't match up with the quarry my 338 RUM w/300 OTMs will be his back up. It's nicer to shoot than his 308 anyway.

I'll do a complete copper removal process and see what happens.

The cuop de gras is finally delivered in post #208. It truely surprises me that Nosler didn't flesh these out better. They have always seemed to be a very conservative company, erring on the side of caution.

I wonder where that leaves the rest of the ABLR's? The 308 210's seem to be holding up OK.

Oh well, their BC's didn't overly impress me anyway and I am not a tipped bullet kinda guy. I really feel bad for you tipped/bonded bullet guys.... I really do

 

[Pdvdh]

This Thread is an example of the value of a Forum where members are largely free to express their product use experiences, without the tainting of the facts commonly associated with reporting when there are financial associations to the product manufacturers. There are countless other similar Threads on this Forum covering all sorts of hunting products.

So is this a Nosler bashing thread? I don't think so. Members are simply reporting their product use experiences. IF this Thread was about a Berger bullet would it be a Berger bashing thread? I think not. Members who attempt to attack the messenger and stifle posts and reporting of disappointments only harm the core value of a forum for the majority of members. If I want to know what a bullet manufacturer claims about its bullet performance, I'll simply read/review their paid advertisements. When I want to find out how users rate product performance, I go to a Forum. Thumbs up to those who are willing to test and report their product use experiences, at the risk of offending company/Brand X loyalists.

 

[Pdvdh]

The cuop de gras is finally delivered in post #208.

Post #288.

 

[foggybottombob]

I have some 150 gr ABLRs loaded to shoot through my .270 win tomorrow. I have been stuck working every weekend forever and had to put it off. My test loads ran about 3000 fps through the chrony. I'll see what happens for me.

 

[Fiftydriver]

I learned early on in my business that its much better to face up to a problem and have your customers HELP you figure out the problem and then FIX it then try to hide from a problem and fix it behind the scenes. I had 18 of the first 7mm Allen Magnums go to hell with accuracy problems and in the end, had to replace 18 barrels out of my pocket but I was able to have my customers, many here on LRH help me figure out what the problem was much more quickly then if I had tried to do it alone.

It was the right call to cover the cost of these barrel replacements and in the end, I think it actually helped my business much more then hurt. That said, it was a serious hit to the wallet and took a full year + to recover. Still it was the right thing to do.

There are always issues when we bring a new product to the market but being open to the fact that there may be some problems that come up and fix them as they do come up is the way to go.

One would think however that Nosler would certainly be able to FULLY field test all of their new bullets well before releasing them to the public. And that means testing them in standard chamberings as well as magnum chamberings to prove them before putting them on the shelf. That is what apparently did not happen.

 

[Pdvdh]

It won't take long for this Thread to reach Nosler. Surely a manager within their ranks will step up and order some additional testing now by staffs under his employment. This is a well established company. Likely just a speed bump for them, yet one they ought to smooth out - the sooner the better. The more of the current 150 gr .277 bullets they continue to sell, the greater the potential for customer dissatisfaction/complaints.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

It seems to be more of a problem to the 270 cal 150alr than the 7mm 150; we ran the 150gr 7mm abarl down both a 9" twist AND a 10" twist stw without managing to kill a bullet. I loaded a box with 80.0 rl25 to flesh these pills out a bit better and may even push them to max charge (should be up a couple of grains at least; I had NO pressure signs at 80gr) to see if I CAN get a failure. I'm hoping nosler caqn figure out what the heck is going on with the 270 cal alr before it poisons people on all of the alr pills.

 

[elkaholic]

I like some of the comments here! First of all, thanks Roy for your good reporting. I know it is time consuming to do this. Paul: good job pointing out the benefits of truthfulness in reporting! Kirby: I agree that the nose is too thin with that tip configuration and hollow point. I also think the tighter the twist, the worse the problem. It is NO WONDER these things expanded easily down to 1300' in my tests! I fear the only thing Nosler has accomplished is to extend the expansion range for low velocity rifles; none of which most of us shoot!.......rich

 

[Fiftydriver]

I agree, if your shooting a 308 based or '06 based chambering with these bullets, likely you will be very happy. Unfortunately, very few of us shoot these......

We will see if Nosler is serious about supporting the long range hunters out there. If they are, they will redesign the bullet and solve the problem. If they are not, they will simply say nothing wrong with the bullet and basically live with it. We will see.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I'll have to see what happens at warmer temps. with the 150alr before I think of this as my go to bullet in the 7stw. I was running the 171 barnes match in my rifle last year but with temp fluctuation the rifle went from back to back 1/4 moa groups to 2+ moa. There were other issues at play with the rifle at the time (mostly stock related), but I'm 90% sure the pill simply wasn't holding up at higher temps with the stresses generated on it by the 7stw.
The 140 ab is a much more stable pill in the rifle and doesn't stray over moa even in crappy weather without my messing up. Time will tell here; it'll be getting cold soon up here in N.D. and I'll have to wait until spring to fetter out whether the 150alr will tolerate the bore at 100 degrees or better.

 

[elkaholic]

We are all pretty familiar with the original AB and it's pluses and minuses. It appears we have learned what we need to know about the LRAB. In my opinion, Nosler tried a little to hard to take over the long range world and overshot! What they need to come up with is something about half way in between the two. I know how difficult it is to get a bullet to take high velocity stress and still be fragile enough to expand at low velocity. These LRAB's expand EASIER than mine do. I believe the difference is, as Kirby pointed out, the large hollow point behind the tip, coupled with a thin nose. Mine have a thin nose, and a tip, and I even serrate the nose, but the lead is flush with the tip. This allows expansion at low velocity but is much more controlled (not explosive). Besides that, the LRAB's are bonded! What would they do if they weren't!........Rich

 

[Fiftydriver]

I'll have to see what happens at warmer temps. with the 150alr before I think of this as my go to bullet in the 7stw. I was running the 171 barnes match in my rifle last year but with temp fluctuation the rifle went from back to back 1/4 moa groups to 2+ moa. There were other issues at play with the rifle at the time (mostly stock related), but I'm 90% sure the pill simply wasn't holding up at higher temps with the stresses generated on it by the 7stw.
The 140 ab is a much more stable pill in the rifle and doesn't stray over moa even in crappy weather without my messing up. Time will tell here; it'll be getting cold soon up here in N.D. and I'll have to wait until spring to fetter out whether the 150alr will tolerate the bore at 100 degrees or better.

Have you not tried the Berger 180 gr Hunting VLD? Just developed a load in my 7mm Allen Magnum with 101.0 gr RL33 that averaged 3380 fps out of a 26" barrel length. This is out of a VERY old barrel and I heated the barrel up in an attempt to rip this bullet apart and it held solid at 1030 yards in a hot, very worn barrel. I would think it will handle anything the STW could throw it at.