MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Yeah, we B soul mates. . .
2 bad 4 you!gun)
Hey Rich, you gonna start raising goats???
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Nosler Accubond Long Range problem
- Thread starter Engineering101
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Hey Rich, you gonna start raising goats???
royinidaho
Well-Known Member
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
Hey Rich, you gonna start raising goats???
If I did, it would be for bullet testing!
No offense Roy........RichMontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Engineering101
Well-Known Member
You all will no doubt be glad to learn that the rifle that started this whole mess has been torn to pieces. Well one piece. I took the 270 WSM barrel off and put back on the original 260 Rem no taper target barrel. I took it to the range with a known good load (140 AMAXs). It grouped 0.250" at 200 yards. You would think I could stick a garden hose on the action and it would shoot given that kind of accuracy but it doesn't seem to work that way. Put the 270 WSM barrel on and that alone makes it a 1.5 MOA gun.
The 300 RUM barrel which is basically a twin of the 270 WSM is still grouping 1.250" at 200 yards with the 200 grain LRXs. It did it again today after I stuck a new Bushnell Elite 6500 on it. (That by the way is a pretty nice scope. There isn't much you can't do with 4.5X to 30X and the popup reset to zero turrets are way better than messing with setscrews.)
As I mentioned I'll be getting a box of the 6.5mm ABLRs and will try them in the 260 Rem. If they don't shoot in that rifle I will blame it on the bullets.
The 300 RUM barrel which is basically a twin of the 270 WSM is still grouping 1.250" at 200 yards with the 200 grain LRXs. It did it again today after I stuck a new Bushnell Elite 6500 on it. (That by the way is a pretty nice scope. There isn't much you can't do with 4.5X to 30X and the popup reset to zero turrets are way better than messing with setscrews.)
As I mentioned I'll be getting a box of the 6.5mm ABLRs and will try them in the 260 Rem. If they don't shoot in that rifle I will blame it on the bullets.
gamehawker
Well-Known Member
Below are two pics of a 3 shot grouping @100 yards with the ABLR 168gr / H1000 79gr. from each of my twin Remington 700 Sendero SF 7mm STWs when I was at the rifle range on Wednesday developing some loads. The average velocity was 3,125 fps.
They were both right at .5 MOA. I am still fine-tuning and developing the loads to see if I can slightly increase the velocity (up to 3,200 fps) and tighten up the groups (.25 MOA).
So far I am pretty pleased about these ABLRs!
I ordered a MagnetoSpeed V2 Chronograph last night and I am looking forward to using it instead of the Shooting Chrony Alpha Master Chronograph that I am currently using. The Shooting Chrony gave a few ERR messages on Wednesday and that was very frustrating!
They were both right at .5 MOA. I am still fine-tuning and developing the loads to see if I can slightly increase the velocity (up to 3,200 fps) and tighten up the groups (.25 MOA).
So far I am pretty pleased about these ABLRs!
I ordered a MagnetoSpeed V2 Chronograph last night and I am looking forward to using it instead of the Shooting Chrony Alpha Master Chronograph that I am currently using. The Shooting Chrony gave a few ERR messages on Wednesday and that was very frustrating!
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royinidaho
Well-Known Member
As the song says:
Ya gotta know when to hold 'em
know when to fold 'em
know when to walk away and
know when to run. . . . .
See pics . . . . Self explanatory I think?
Loaded up a couple 277 150 ABLRs and sent them down range to 300 ahead of 99 grains of US 869 for a MV of 3350 or so. Guessing 3 MOA group of the two.
As accuracy since messing with these has gone to Hades I switched stocks to a known good one, in case the A-5 bedding went south. I also wanted to try PP 4000 MR as it has been reported to be a similar burn rate as 7828ssc.
I loaded 85 grains of 4000, 3 grains more than the 7828ssc load which pokes along at a little better than 3400.
Two bangs later I learned the 85 grains was just a little hot. Enough bolt lift that it wouldn't be good for a hunting situation. Velocity was a few FPS over 3500.
I had reached the goal of finding max pressure that I was willing to go to.
A 300 yard stroll revealed whatcha see. . . .
As the rig accuracy seemed to got to hell in a hand basket after 8 shots, which showed really good potential, I have to ask; What are the odds of a bullet that acts as this one does affecting long term accuracy?
All three loads that used to be around and usually less than 0.50 MOA are now running about 2 MOA.
I have a woof hunt coming up Monday and have to leave this rig behind. But that's ok as the woof hunt is part of my grandson's trophy bull hunt. If his peckerwood 308 w/150s don't match up with the quarry my 338 RUM w/300 OTMs will be his back up. It's nicer to shoot than his 308 anyway.
I'll do a complete copper removal process and see what happens.
Ya gotta know when to hold 'em
know when to fold 'em
know when to walk away and
know when to run. . . . .
See pics . . . . Self explanatory I think?
Loaded up a couple 277 150 ABLRs and sent them down range to 300 ahead of 99 grains of US 869 for a MV of 3350 or so. Guessing 3 MOA group of the two.
As accuracy since messing with these has gone to Hades I switched stocks to a known good one, in case the A-5 bedding went south. I also wanted to try PP 4000 MR as it has been reported to be a similar burn rate as 7828ssc.
I loaded 85 grains of 4000, 3 grains more than the 7828ssc load which pokes along at a little better than 3400.
Two bangs later I learned the 85 grains was just a little hot. Enough bolt lift that it wouldn't be good for a hunting situation. Velocity was a few FPS over 3500.
I had reached the goal of finding max pressure that I was willing to go to.
A 300 yard stroll revealed whatcha see. . . .
As the rig accuracy seemed to got to hell in a hand basket after 8 shots, which showed really good potential, I have to ask; What are the odds of a bullet that acts as this one does affecting long term accuracy?
All three loads that used to be around and usually less than 0.50 MOA are now running about 2 MOA.
I have a woof hunt coming up Monday and have to leave this rig behind. But that's ok as the woof hunt is part of my grandson's trophy bull hunt. If his peckerwood 308 w/150s don't match up with the quarry my 338 RUM w/300 OTMs will be his back up. It's nicer to shoot than his 308 anyway.
I'll do a complete copper removal process and see what happens.
Attachments
winmag
Well-Known Member
Haha you finally got em to tumble! Cool!
I hate to say it, but it's not looking good for the 270/150 ABLR. Curious why the larger bore diameters seem to do well but not this one? bummer for us 270 fans. I wonder if the 6.5 will be similar? Or worse?
Between accuracy issues, & completely coming apart in the Terminal velocity tests, I'm kinda glad I sent em down the road Roy. Thank you for all your efforts, in testing, & credible reports.
I had high hopes for this one. Oh we'll.
I hate to say it, but it's not looking good for the 270/150 ABLR. Curious why the larger bore diameters seem to do well but not this one?
bummer for us 270 fans. I wonder if the 6.5 will be similar? Or worse?Between accuracy issues, & completely coming apart in the Terminal velocity tests, I'm kinda glad I sent em down the road Roy. Thank you for all your efforts, in testing, & credible reports.
I had high hopes for this one. Oh we'll.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Have not kept up with the thread after your ladder test as personally, when I looked at it, it looked like things were going to heck as the velocity increased with that ladder test.
In all honesty, these on target results do not surprise me at all. What it tells me is that the base of the bullet is plenty strong for any velocity but from the body junction forward is not strong enough to handle +3000 fps. This will be a serious problem for Nosler.
Again, my theory is that there is not enough support under that tip with the thin jacket in the ogive and huge hollow cavity under the tip. I fully believe that with velocity over 3000 fps, the tip is being driven back into the bullet which starts premature expansion and you get what you see on Roys targets.
Pretty sure that if the hollow cavity was removed the problem would be greatly reduced and there would still be plenty of expansion.
Just wonder how much ACTUAL field testing was done with these bullets in magnum chamberings before they were released. Sometimes something looks very good on paper and SEEMS like a good idea but in the end, fail miserably.
Again, I love Nosler bullets. Let me rephrase that, I love Ballistic Tips and Accubonds for the most part. Not a fan of the partition bullets, no opinion on e-tips but in the past few years, Nosler, I hate to say, has dropped the ball on two potentially huge sellers for them.
1. The 300 gr 338 Accubond. They simply lengthened the body of the 250 gr version which resulted in a bullet that, while accurate, is extremely slow compared to other 300 gr 338 cal bullets because of the excessive baring surface of this bullet. A more aggressive ogive, more aggressive Boattail and shorter body would have allowed increase velocity and dramatically helped BC of this bullet. HUGE missed opportunity.
2. These new Long Range Accubonds are getting off on VERY shaky ground. From the looks of it, they are for standard chamberings only. No problem with that but its going to make a lot of magnum owners mad when they pay good money for these bullets only to have them keyhole at 300 yards from magnum rifles.......
Two chances to really take Nosler to the next level in the long range game but unfortunately, both have been less then steller. Again, the 300 gr Accubond is an accurate bullet for sure. It just runs 75 fps behind the SMK and close to 125 fps behind the berger. Add to that the fact it has a pretty poor BC for a 300 gr 338 caliber bullet and that really puts it well behind the pack. Terminally, it will be a great bullet for heavier game. Still, they missed a huge opportunity with this bullet and the long range accubonds in my opinion.
Seems more testing would have solved them a lot of problems.
In all honesty, these on target results do not surprise me at all. What it tells me is that the base of the bullet is plenty strong for any velocity but from the body junction forward is not strong enough to handle +3000 fps. This will be a serious problem for Nosler.
Again, my theory is that there is not enough support under that tip with the thin jacket in the ogive and huge hollow cavity under the tip. I fully believe that with velocity over 3000 fps, the tip is being driven back into the bullet which starts premature expansion and you get what you see on Roys targets.
Pretty sure that if the hollow cavity was removed the problem would be greatly reduced and there would still be plenty of expansion.
Just wonder how much ACTUAL field testing was done with these bullets in magnum chamberings before they were released. Sometimes something looks very good on paper and SEEMS like a good idea but in the end, fail miserably.
Again, I love Nosler bullets. Let me rephrase that, I love Ballistic Tips and Accubonds for the most part. Not a fan of the partition bullets, no opinion on e-tips but in the past few years, Nosler, I hate to say, has dropped the ball on two potentially huge sellers for them.
1. The 300 gr 338 Accubond. They simply lengthened the body of the 250 gr version which resulted in a bullet that, while accurate, is extremely slow compared to other 300 gr 338 cal bullets because of the excessive baring surface of this bullet. A more aggressive ogive, more aggressive Boattail and shorter body would have allowed increase velocity and dramatically helped BC of this bullet. HUGE missed opportunity.
2. These new Long Range Accubonds are getting off on VERY shaky ground. From the looks of it, they are for standard chamberings only. No problem with that but its going to make a lot of magnum owners mad when they pay good money for these bullets only to have them keyhole at 300 yards from magnum rifles.......
Two chances to really take Nosler to the next level in the long range game but unfortunately, both have been less then steller. Again, the 300 gr Accubond is an accurate bullet for sure. It just runs 75 fps behind the SMK and close to 125 fps behind the berger. Add to that the fact it has a pretty poor BC for a 300 gr 338 caliber bullet and that really puts it well behind the pack. Terminally, it will be a great bullet for heavier game. Still, they missed a huge opportunity with this bullet and the long range accubonds in my opinion.
Seems more testing would have solved them a lot of problems.
Thanks for testing these Roy, and for providing the photos and results. Think I'll sit on the sidelines and let this hunting season pass without purchasing ABLR bullets in .284 or .308 calibers. Perhaps we'll have better clarity on the performance of these bullets in the various calibers in another year.
royinidaho
Well-Known Member
For any one that want's 'em, I have a new unopened box of 'em.
I won't even use them in the winnie as I'm perfectly comfortable with Ballistic Tips, NABs and Bergers.
Come on Eric let's get those 170s out here! Please.
I won't even use them in the winnie as I'm perfectly comfortable with Ballistic Tips, NABs and Bergers.
Come on Eric let's get those 170s out here! Please.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
For any one that want's 'em, I have a new unopened box of 'em.
I won't even use them in the winnie as I'm perfectly comfortable with Ballistic Tips, NABs and Bergers.
Come on Eric let's get those 170s out here! Please.
Amen to that. Need to breath some life back into my 270 Allen Magnum.
Could explain why the bullet that was supposed to take over the long range hunting market pretty much can't be found.
One thing I really like about the Berger company is when they were having problems with the Generation 1, 338's at high velocities, they came right out and said that they were having a problem. No clandestine BS. They just put their cards on the table. When it was fixed, they announced that and what they did to fix it and then put them on the market. I have a pretty high trust factor for Berger. Now if I could just find them.
One thing I really like about the Berger company is when they were having problems with the Generation 1, 338's at high velocities, they came right out and said that they were having a problem. No clandestine BS. They just put their cards on the table. When it was fixed, they announced that and what they did to fix it and then put them on the market. I have a pretty high trust factor for Berger. Now if I could just find them.
