Nosler Accubond Long Range problem

[Fiftydriver]

Here's my advise for Nosler. Start by thinking out of the box. These ABLR's are nothing more than Amax bullets with a little thicker base. They are a cross between a varmint bullet and the traditional so-called controlled expansion bonded bullets, only the expansion isn't very controlled at High velocities... and guess what Nosler.... Long Range shooters shoot high velocity cartridges.

Nosler, if you are reading. You have an outstanding controlled expansion bullet in the Partition. Take the Partition and make it a VLD long range bullet. Design the tip and nose for the expansion velocity you can that will still hold up to extreme velocities produced by LONG RANGE rifles. If the nose comes apart during high velocity contact, that's OK, as long as a majority of the bullet remains in tact. Blunt frontals cause a lot of damage. Your ABLR's are already coming apart big time leaving very little of the bullet intact.

Aslo, try making bullets for tighter twist rates. I will not shoot a bullet that stabilizes in an 11 twist when I can shoot a heavier, higher BC one that stabilizes in a 10 twist. I will pick a 230 Berger Hybrid before a 210 whatever.

Couple things I would like to mention, the A-Max will usually allow at least 3300 fps in most instances so even it is a better choice then the current ABLR bullets.

The Partition, have not been a fan for quite a while. I have proven on several different occasions that if muzzle velocity is over 3200 fps and impacts are inside 400 yards, the potential for rupturing the partition is about 50%. Inside 300 yards this goes up to around 80%. Once the partition ruptures, expansion stops nearly instantly.

In my testing, with velocity levels over 3200 fps, the standard Accubond is a far better choice over the partition, retains at least as much weight, higher BC and generally more accurate and surprisingly, generally penetrates deeper.

For Muzzle velocities between 3000 and 3200 fps, and at ranges over 300 yards, hardly any problems. Muzzle velocities below 3000 fps, no real issues at any range.

Muzzle velocities over 3400 fps, the partition will fail nearly 100% of the time at ranges under 400 yards.

Now, I realize that many do not shoot chamberings that push these velocities but those that do, I have found the partition to be far less effective then a standard Accubond bullet.

Just some observations with these other bullets at higher muzzle velocities.

 

[Pdvdh]

Kirby,
You ever pushed Swift A-Frames to the max? I just ordered a box for bear/camp defense loads.

 

[Pdvdh]

What are the details of the shot... range, velocity, bullet path through animal, any bone hit, internal cavitation, exit wound?

Mark,
This caribou was shot in 2012. I thought I was going to be shooting him at 750 yds, but he took off at a trot in my direction, and when I finally shot him, he was about 335yds. This was a .308 190gr SXR. MV=3050fps from my 25 1/2" Lilja barreled 300 WinMag. Impact velocity would have been about 2560 fps. It was a broadside shot thru the ribs, just behind both front shoulders. He bled plenty out of both sides, but the heaviest bleeding was on the exit side. Never found the bullet as it exited the bull. There wasn't too much entry side damage to the rib cage, but more than a factory Berger VLD, which explains the significant blood loss out the entry side. The large tip on Rich's SXR will cause these bullets to open quickly on impact velocity exceeding 2700 fps. Rich likes their performance better at impact velocities from about 2300 fps and less. I think he's tested them to confirm reliable expansion with impact velocity as low as 1300 fps.

 

[Fiftydriver]

Kirby,
You ever pushed Swift A-Frames to the max? I just ordered a box for bear/camp defense loads.

Yep, You can crack one but it takes a load of velocity and very hard impact. In all reality, in the field fired from pretty much any conventional shoulder fired weapon on big game, they will survive. MUCH stronger then partitions.

 

[mtmuley]

Might be a dumb question, but how about Nosler just altering the profile of the original Accubond to squeeze a bit more BC out of it? And some heavier weights of course. mtmuley

 

[Elkhunter1983]

Have tried the 150s out of a 280 and 284 and they certainly like a lot of jump. The 280 shot a ragged one hole group with .128" of jump.

 

[elkaholic]

Might be a dumb question, but how about Nosler just altering the profile of the original Accubond to squeeze a bit more BC out of it? And some heavier weights of course. mtmuley

I think it would take a few changes. They would have to thin the jacket out at the nose as well as reshape the ogive to get the b.c. up. I have always suspected that they used lead alloy to harden the core, but not sure about that? Using pure lead would also help if that was the case and wouldn't require as much jacket thinning. At any rate, there is no reason that they couldn't do it.......Rich

 

[Fiftydriver]

Have tried the 150s out of a 280 and 284 and they certainly like a lot of jump. The 280 shot a ragged one hole group with .128" of jump.

That's because your loading them to conventional velocity ranges which most that have shot them have been able to get them to shoot at these standard velocity ranges, just not when they get noticeably over 3000 fps at the muzzle.

Your results are echoing the results of most out there.

 

[foggybottombob]

I think it would take a few changes. They would have to thin the jacket out at the nose as well as reshape the ogive to get the b.c. up. I have always suspected that they used lead alloy to harden the core, but not sure about that? Using pure lead would also help if that was the case and wouldn't require as much jacket thinning. At any rate, there is no reason that they couldn't do it.......Rich

I'm going to guess that the only reason Nosler makes anything is to make money. So anything they do has to be a business decision.

 

[elkaholic]

I'm going to guess that the only reason Nosler makes anything is to make money. So anything they do has to be a business decision.

I wholeheartedly agree! That is why it makes NO sense to me that they didn't do their homework a little better. I'm sure that they invested considerable time and money to get tooled up to make a bullet that won't do as intended. It is probably a pretty good bullet for long range .308 hunting, but what is the market for that?.....Rich

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Couple things I would like to mention, the A-Max will usually allow at least 3300 fps in most instances so even it is a better choice then the current ABLR bullets.

The Partition, have not been a fan for quite a while. I have proven on several different occasions that if muzzle velocity is over 3200 fps and impacts are inside 400 yards, the potential for rupturing the partition is about 50%. Inside 300 yards this goes up to around 80%. Once the partition ruptures, expansion stops nearly instantly.

In my testing, with velocity levels over 3200 fps, the standard Accubond is a far better choice over the partition, retains at least as much weight, higher BC and generally more accurate and surprisingly, generally penetrates deeper.

For Muzzle velocities between 3000 and 3200 fps, and at ranges over 300 yards, hardly any problems. Muzzle velocities below 3000 fps, no real issues at any range.

Muzzle velocities over 3400 fps, the partition will fail nearly 100% of the time at ranges under 400 yards.

Now, I realize that many do not shoot chamberings that push these velocities but those that do, I have found the partition to be far less effective then a standard Accubond bullet.

Just some observations with these other bullets at higher muzzle velocities.

That is interesting Kirby. I shot the 160 Partitions in a 7 RM with an MV of 3000 and they worked fine for me on a bunch of critters form 15 to maybe 300 yds. But that of course wasn't pushing them over 3000.

Then maybe they should make the base core a tougher alloy and/or toughen up the partition portion. I think it's basically a good design that needs refining.

Also, my only experience with an AccuBond was a 180 shot out of a 300 WSM @ 3000 fps. Hit a cow elk in the spine at about 150-200 yds and came apart. Entry to exit was about 16" near the top of the cow's back and the exit hole was a gapping 3". I found a small piece of shrapnel in the exit wound, so I am a little skeptical about how well they would hold up to a high velocity quartering shot through a heavy shoulder bone. And Paul has said he will not use the Amax anymore on large game because he had one evaporate on a moose's shoulder.

Well what ever, I think Nosler or any other company could come up with a tough, high BC Long Range bullet if they gave it some effort.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Mark,
This caribou was shot in 2012. I thought I was going to be shooting him at 750 yds, but he took off at a trot in my direction, and when I finally shot him, he was about 335yds. This was a .308 190gr SXR. MV=3050fps from my 25 1/2" Lilja barreled 300 WinMag. Impact velocity would have been about 2560 fps. It was a broadside shot thru the ribs, just behind both front shoulders. He bled plenty out of both sides, but the heaviest bleeding was on the exit side. Never found the bullet as it exited the bull. There wasn't too much entry side damage to the rib cage, but more than a factory Berger VLD, which explains the significant blood loss out the entry side. The large tip on Rich's SXR will cause these bullets to open quickly on impact velocity exceeding 2700 fps. Rich likes their performance better at impact velocities from about 2300 fps and less. I think he's tested them to confirm reliable expansion with impact velocity as low as 1300 fps.

That is very impressive. I wonder how well they hold up to big bone? If Rich can figure this out, you would think Nosler could.

Oh, and that's a compliment Rich

 

[elkaholic]

That is very impressive. I wonder how well they hold up to big bone? If Rich can figure this out, you would think Nosler could.

Oh, and that's a compliment Rich

The bullet Paul used on that caribou definitely WILL NOT hold up to big bone.......Rich

 

[Fiftydriver]

That is interesting Kirby. I shot the 160 Partitions in a 7 RM with an MV of 3000 and they worked fine for me on a bunch of critters form 15 to maybe 300 yds. But that of course wasn't pushing them over 3000.

Then maybe they should make the base core a tougher alloy and/or toughen up the partition portion. I think it's basically a good design that needs refining.

Also, my only experience with an AccuBond was a 180 shot out of a 300 WSM @ 3000 fps. Hit a cow elk in the spine at about 150-200 yds and came apart. Entry to exit was about 16" near the top of the cow's back and the exit hole was a gapping 3". I found a small piece of shrapnel in the exit wound, so I am a little skeptical about how well they would hold up to a high velocity quartering shot through a heavy shoulder bone. And Paul has said he will not use the Amax anymore on large game because he had one evaporate on a moose's shoulder.

Well what ever, I think Nosler or any other company could come up with a tough, high BC Long Range bullet if they gave it some effort.

When the Partition was designed, 3000 fps at the muzzle was a pretty serious load, today, that is not the case. Your results at 3000 fps are what I have seen to. Again, anything over this to around 3200 fps you start to see problems come up. Again, this depends on range and type of impact. Soft impacts, less chance of a problem, hard impact, more chance of problem.

What happens when the partition cracks is that the rear core is just blown out the rear of the bullet as there is really nothing keeping it in place other then the crimp on the base core which is not overly strong.

When the base core is blown out, penetration stops. So, with the partition, if the partition holds solid, good performing bullet, when it ruptures, terrible performance. This is not the fault of the bullet design, again, when it was designed, the chamberings used were a perfect match for its design, today, the design has been far outgrown by the velocity potential of todays chamberings, even commercial chamberings.

Not sure what batch of Accubonds you were using that blew up but early 30 cals did have some problems. From what I have learned, the flux compound used in some early lots of bullets caused corrosion between the jacket and core and also caused some tips to dissolve and fall out. IT was reported this problem caused jacket core separation and as a result dramatic bullet weight loss. Since then, I have not heard of any legit issues with the Accubond in any caliber but I fully admit, there were some lots of 30 cal bullets that had serious problems but that problems seems to be well in the past.

The A-Max is a great bullet but its not a big game bullet. They work great in lighter big game, pronghorns and lighter deer species, especially at longer ranges but anyone that would intentionally point one into the shoulder of a bull moose really needs to reevaluate their process for choosing a big game bullet.