Nightforce lately?

[AaronSkipDavidson]

It's Mils but in moa.

FYI 1/3 MOA is not 1/10 MIL, its close but not quite....

 

[Deleted member 48126]

FYI 1/3 MOA is not 1/10 MIL, its close but not quite....

well I'll be again. Lol

 

[Elk Hunter 338]

This is awesome!!!

 

[FEENIX]

Just curious, why no love (or hate) for US Optics scopes?

I have a couple. Start a separate thread and let's see if we can do a 20-pager.

 

[GonzoK34]

First, the disclosure — I spent 14 years in the hunting/shooting sports industry (didn't work for a gun, ammo, optic company) before moving to another industry a couple of years ago. During that time, one particular colleague served as a mentor in my long range hunting and shooting development. He spent a lot of time with me at the range and even taught me to reload for LR. He was also a competitive benchrest shooter and accomplished long range hunter. Furthermore, he works at one of the largest firearms, optics, accessory distributors in the country. Names are omitted to protect the innocent.

In any case, it is been a few years since we touched base, but we had a long conversation last week as I'm contemplating a new build. When we got to the subject of optics — I was very surprised at some of the things he said. For years, this man was a complete Nightforce loyalist for hunting rigs. He could get a lot of optics for free based on his job, and he still paid for NF (albeit @ wholesale prices). His affinity was primarily due to their mechanical precision and durability...not necessarily glass clarity. He strongly recommended I take a look at some other optics for my new build. As I prodded a little bit he shared these quotes:

• It's not the same company it was a few years ago. Massive turnover, poor customer service, and arrogance.
• They've traded precision for profit. Lost focus on what made them great.
• Their new lines (SHV/NX8) are substandard (returns) and other companies have improved/passed them in the at the NXS/ATACR price points.

Its been a couple of days since this conversation and I'm still trying to digest it. My personal experience w NF has been excellent on the two scopes I own. I took it once step further and called 3 builders I trust. 2 of them have built guns for me before. After discussing the build, I talked optics and none of the 3 recommended NF unless I just demanded it.

Anybody else had any poor experiences w NF lately? Have other companies improved that much? The consistent recommendation across the 4 people I talked to were Leupold on the $2000 range, and Kahles in the $3300 range. Still S&B above 4K.

 

[david g ranes]

AMEN!

And the "it's gotta be user error" comments by CS are the best way to ensure that the customer never buys their product again.

Don't have a dog in this argument but I have used many different brands of scopes in the last 50 years no I don't believe I need a 4500 dollar scope to do what I need it to do but I did have an issue with a night force scope so I thought and that was the first thing out of there mouth is we don't think it is the scope I was very disappointed because I new I hadn't caused a problem then we walked through the issue I was having and low and behold it was something I wasn't doing right but the problem was solved so I went on down the road so you have to think I'm not the only one who had created their own problems but it happens every day and I'm sure it gets annoying answering the same stupid questions every day so people can get a little testy I'm sure but that doesn't people being responsible for there own faults I no I wouldn't warranty a scope that was run over by a truck so i wouldn't send a scope like that in even if it was going to be replaced free I feel a lot of warranty work is done that doesn't need to be done just to appease the customer and coming from a prior business owner the customer isn't always right but I did eat some product from time to time because it wasn't worth my time to argue so until the complainers on here have set on the business side of each manufacturer no one really say for sure the number of non customer related problems there really is I know over tightening rings cause erector movement problems but most people won't admit they might have done so why the arguments go kick your dog or something. David

 

[snox801]

I'll argue while some scopes have just as good of glass for a better price point, they're not as bomb proof as NF! I'm looking forward to my 7-35 ATACR for my 300 Raptor

Kirby's rifles like them. That the same scope on my .375. And he said he really liked it. I can tell you I can get a very good look at what I'm shooting from a long way out with it.

 

[Will16]

FYI 1/3 MOA is not 1/10 MIL, its close but not quite....

Close enough to say it is but far enough away to mess up your Ballistics. Like shooters moa and real moa.

 

[lhp63190]

Wow....i certainly didn't anticipate this kind of response and in all honesty wasn't trying to be derogatory towards NF....and admit I probably could have worded my original post better. The reality is, I got really into LR hunting and casual shooting (I'm certainly not a PRS/Benchrest competitor) 7-8 years ago. However, over the past 3 years I've been blessed with a couple of kids, a career change and a relocation that has taken significant time away from my shooting/reloading passion....still did a fair amount of archery hunting.

With some additional time on my hands due to COVID, I finally set up a new bergara rifle w/ an old vortex HST I had in the garage. I immediately realized I needed an optics upgrade. I'm also contemplating a new custom build in 300 PRC or 338 RUM/Edge so I called an old friend for advice. I had previously built 2 guns based on his advice and both were topped w/ NF NXS. Note: I've had a great experience with both NF scopes although I did sell one of the guns w/ the scope. I was truly surprised at my mentors position shift on NF and came here for some additional input on recent experiences w/ NF....and boy did I get it!!!!

For the naysayers, I understand. I'm just a guy on the web that knows a guy that said some bad things about a beloved brand. Whether the issues are truly performance related, business related, or just contecture, I do feel as though @skipdavidson 's comments lend some credibility to what I've heard outside the forum.

I want to thank everyone for taking the time to reply and provide quality feedback. Based on what I've learned via this board, NF (NXS/ATACR) is certainly still on my list but it seems as though there a lot more options to consider than when I built my first guns several years ago. To me, this is part of the "fun" of building a custom rifle. I need to make some more friends at the range to personally test a few more options before I make a decision.

LHP

 

[snox801]

Lol
I actually ran a Nikon over with a truck once. It had a slight bend in the bell. I sent it in asking them to just check it over letting them know I ran it over. They sent me a brand new newer model of the scope no charge. I figured I'd just use it or ya e to get a new one but they just shipped out a replacement. Seems I've had gray luck with all scope companies customer service.

 

[Deleted member 103481]

Lol
I actually ran a Nikon over with a truck once. It had a slight bend in the bell. I sent it in asking them to just check it over letting them know I ran it over. They sent me a brand new newer model of the scope no charge. I figured I'd just use it or ya e to get a new one but they just shipped out a replacement. Seems I've had gray luck with all scope companies customer service.

What kinda truck

 

[GonzoK34]

I have had many leupold rifle scopes. But sold them after an Elk Hunt in Colorado due to a scope failure turret tracking out the window. Back in camp I replaced it with another Leupold and successfully harvested a nice 5x5. I sent that scope in for repairs when I got it back I sold 3 leupolds and bought a NF. Many years later hunting on horse back in late November with heavy snow my scabbard strap broke while climbing a steep ravine to gain alititude. My rifle slipped out sliding 75 yds down the draw. I never noticed it fall. When I got to a bench I tied off my horse and reached for the rifle. Crap jumped back on the horse and backtracked. Found the rifle barrel plugged with snow and ice. Took my military cleaning rod and punch the bore clean. Laid down bore sighted on a tree knob and looked thru the scope reticle was centered on the knob. The next morning I shot a 5x5 bull. I buy NF and have never looked back.

 

[rogerstep]

Wow, lots of supporter talk here. As a customer spending millions on optics yearly (not thousands), I shared our decision to make a shift. I indicated it was not based only on quality, but also based on features (Leupold turret system, lighter weight, Kahles optical quality, etc), and relationship, and other vendor performance issues like delivery. I was sharing my choice as a customer. I wasn't (and never would) suggest that you have to make the same choice, or that my reasons would even matter to you! Tranquilo buddy.

By the way, sourcing some components of your product (eg, glass) is not the same as sourcing a completed assembly and performing a qc check.

And another revelation....business is about profit. Different companies choose different methods to achieve said goal. I believe faster service for my customers is one way to have a competitive advantage, and JIT delivery of products from vendor supply is a massive factor in making our customers happy. It's every bit as important as feature and price.

We were the largest Nightforce dealer in the world for the NXS 5.5-22 and ATACR 5-25 at different points in our 10-year relationship. We consistently placed near the top overall dealer volume with just a handful of SKUs. I can say with statistical certainty that our issue rate with Leupold is at comparable levels. And in a mark 5 we get non-raising locking turrets, tons of elevation, and less weight.

In light rifle space, think about the dollars that are spent to run Carbon Fiber stocks or Titanium actions. Saving 6-10 ounces on a scope that otherwise is as good as or better than a comparable product, and for the same or less cost to the end customer is a big win in my book. My cost margins are the same, so no big win for us on the $ side in the switch.

The myth of product superiority when we are discussing optics (or products in general) is a farce! Get specific. In what aspects? What is the data sample? Are suggesting the only thing that matters is performance feature? Which ones?

Our account was worth millions annually to NF. We no longer purchase products from them. Regardless of what you want to read into this data, I think it's relative to the discussion thread.

 

[rogerstep]

Enjoyed the thread, glad I bought a March