Newbie Shooter no experience MOA vs Milrad

[westcliffe01]

The 105 Amax was one of the bullets that Hornady discontinued during the great ammo crisis from 2012 to 2014. So it was basically unobtainable. I just checked and Grafs shows out of stock. Yes, its a good bullet, but if you can't get it, it is irrelevant.

 

[CleanShot]

When you get to this point with the Savage .243. Try Hornady 105 A-max before you pull the barrel. I think you'll find they shoot exceptionally well from the Savage 1-9.25 barrel. Mine shoots them very very well. It's a know good heavy bullet from that twist.

Problem is I can't find factory a-max ammo in 243 and I don't load.

 

[CleanShot]

The 105 Amax was one of the bullets that Hornady discontinued during the great ammo crisis from 2012 to 2014. So it was basically unobtainable. I just checked and Grafs shows out of stock. Yes, its a good bullet, but if you can't get it, it is irrelevant.

That explains it.

 

[westcliffe01]

You are going to have to learn to reload. Otherwise none of your ammo will be optimal for any rifle that you own and every time you go shopping you may leave the store with something different based on what is available. That is not a good place to be.

A Hornady Lock n Load press is quite inexpensive and a set of dies may run $80 unless you get super high end bushing dies. You need some brass, and I recommend you get some Lapua brass at $1/shell. It will be worth it and will last a very long time. The worst thing is to have 20 pieces each of several different brands of brass with different internal capacity. That way, once you develop a load you will have a hard time making up a batch of loaded ammo since the load will have to be adjusted for each brand of casing. Again, a bad and frustrating place to be.

Then you need to get some bullets that may work in your rifle. The 95gr SST is available from Hornady. You might try the 95gr Sierra Match King. Then you will need some powder and fortunately that picture has been getting better, since it was awful. Hodgdon 4831 or Hybrid 100V are options that are currently available. Primers are generally available now, I use CCI 200 large rifle primers.

Problem is I can't find factory a-max ammo in 243 and I don't load.

 

[Barrelnut]

+1 on needing to learn to reload. It is not as difficult or time consuming as some think. You will be hard pressed to find factory ammo that is as accurate as hand loads and if you do it will probably be expensive and the lot to lot consistency of it would be questionable. The Hornady Classic reloading kit would be a great starter kit.

Seems your long term goal here is to be able to take that 7mag on a western antelope or elk hunt. About the only way you will ever be able to make a long range shot on one of those animals with confidence will be with quality hand loads tailored to the rifle.

Once you start reloading you will like it. It's a big part of the overall hobby.

 

[CleanShot]

You are going to have to learn to reload. Otherwise none of your ammo will be optimal for any rifle that you own and every time you go shopping you may leave the store with something different based on what is available. That is not a good place to be.

A Hornady Lock n Load press is quite inexpensive and a set of dies may run $80 unless you get super high end bushing dies. You need some brass, and I recommend you get some Lapua brass at $1/shell. It will be worth it and will last a very long time. The worst thing is to have 20 pieces each of several different brands of brass with different internal capacity. That way, once you develop a load you will have a hard time making up a batch of loaded ammo since the load will have to be adjusted for each brand of casing. Again, a bad and frustrating place to be.

Then you need to get some bullets that may work in your rifle. The 95gr SST is available from Hornady. You might try the 95gr Sierra Match King. Then you will need some powder and fortunately that picture has been getting better, since it was awful. Hodgdon 4831 or Hybrid 100V are options that are currently available. Primers are generally available now, I use CCI 200 large rifle primers.

+1 on needing to learn to reload. It is not as difficult or time consuming as some think. You will be hard pressed to find factory ammo that is as accurate as hand loads and if you do it will probably be expensive and the lot to lot consistency of it would be questionable. The Hornady Classic reloading kit would be a great starter kit.

Seems your long term goal here is to be able to take that 7mag on a western antelope or elk hunt. About the only way you will ever be able to make a long range shot on one of those animals with confidence will be with quality hand loads tailored to the rifle.

Once you start reloading you will like it. It's a big part of the overall hobby.

I know I know I know I need to reload. But this stuff is already costing me a fortune and there is so much to learn and so much time consumed without even beginning to get into the handloading. I'm drinking out of a firehose as is so I'm trying to do this all incrementally instead of diving in. Even with a less expensive setup there is more to buy and learn to get into the hand loading. Bullets, powder, dies, press, primer, loading manuals, and then log books and time at the range. That's not to say I won't do it eventually but I want to pick these things up over time. I'm already a 10k in on rifles, scopes, and ammo if not more.

 

[westcliffe01]

Work your way up from the lightest to heaviest (in terms of ftlb of muzzle energy). Don't try to work on all of them at the same time. No point in making the same mistakes on all of them. Start with your 243 and put the others in the safe. Deal with trigger adjustment, bedding the action, free floating the barrel, get a press and a set of 243 dies, powder and bullets. By the time you have worked the kinks out of the 243 you will be able to anticipate some problems you may face with the next rifle. And you should have got in a lot of time on the range. Figure out how to properly focus the reticle and using the side focus to correct for parallax.

If you do not have one yet, get a quality 22lr rifle. Like a CZ bolt action. Take that along to the range and do not shoot your centerfire rifle if you are not shooting excellent groups with the "little gun". It will save a lot of frustration with your load development in knowing whether it is yourself, the ammo or the rifle that is the cause of lacklustre performance. Because none of us is perfect and at times we have off days when one cannot do anything properly...

 

[CleanShot]

I have a Savage Mark II FV that I've been shooting in 22LR. My groups have improved quite a bit with it. I'm beginning to push it out a bit further but quickly learning how much a different load of ammo changes your bullet trajectory since 22LRs have a pretty significant drop to begin with.

 

[lewwetzel]

Also make sure you get a scope with parallax adjustment. Before I got my first PST I got a Minox with a 3-15x magnification range and no side focus. Well, the scope had a terrible parallax problem and as a result shot awful groups on a known good rifle, even at 100 yards, which is the usual distance that parallax is corrected for. Since that experience, I will never again own a scope without parallax adjustment. I guess a single magnification scope should theoretically not need it...

Range (distance) will determine the need for parallax adjustment, not magnification. Also, that non-adjustable Minox should make the rifle shoot most-accurately at that distance, and worse at others (if indeed it was set for 100 at the factory as they may have screwed up; or it could have intentionally been set differently, most likely higher on that scope if it was).
Being a firm believer that variable-power scopes are overrated (and overpriced), I have a Sightron SIII single-20X scope with a handy "1/2 Mil" reticle that lets one get a little tighter when using just reticle holdover. It has parallax adjustment located on the eyepiece like the SWFA "Supersnipers" did. Too bad has MOA clicks and doesn't have glass as good as the other S3s; otherwise it would be my favorite scope.

 

[Booney07]

Thanks for asking this question. I too am new to Long Range Hunting and Shooting. I drank in every single post of this thread and will reference it later I am sure. I enjoy the candid, friendly advice and exchange of information!
Thanks to all who had input here.

 

[westcliffe01]

The reason I mention the link between magnification range and parallax correction, is that I have had many 3x scopes and several fixed 4x or 6x scopes, and none had as bad a parallelism issue as the 3-15x Minox scope (which happened to be the most expensive scope I had bought at the time). In addition, the scope had a serious chromatic aberration (color fringing on high contrast areas) .

The store I bought it from asked it I had dialed the scope to maximum magnification before tightening the rings and I said no. They said, release the scope, dial it up to max magnification and re-tighten, then report back. Following this procedure, which I had never heard of before, resolved the color fringing but made no difference to the movement of the reticle on the target if I moved my eye. I was getting about 2MOA of reticle shift at 100 yards with no way to correct it. I returned the scope and that was when I added some more money and bought the 4-16x50 PST.

Range (distance) will determine the need for parallax adjustment, not magnification. Also, that non-adjustable Minox should make the rifle shoot most-accurately at that distance, and worse at others (if indeed it was set for 100 at the factory as they may have screwed up; or it could have intentionally been set differently, most likely higher on that scope if it was).
Being a firm believer that variable-power scopes are overrated (and overpriced), I have a Sightron SIII single-20X scope with a handy "1/2 Mil" reticle that lets one get a little tighter when using just reticle holdover. It has parallax adjustment located on the eyepiece like the SWFA "Supersnipers" did. Too bad has MOA clicks and doesn't have glass as good as the other S3s; otherwise it would be my favorite scope.

 

[CleanShot]

I am beginning to wonder if I should have collected all the money I've spent on scopes for each rifle and instead gotten one S&B with a LaRue LT111 mount and good picatiny rails for each rifle.

I have never understood why a fixed power optic would be better than variable so that one is new to me. I'm not sure I'm clear on why that would be preferred.

 

[westcliffe01]

IF, the magnification of the fixed scope is suited to the task at hand, it brings a lot to the table:
Simplicity, ruggedness, better optical clarity, better light transmission, lower weight, smaller size. If the scope has a graduated reticle, it is automatically a "FFP" reticle since with no zoom ring, the subtentions always have the same value...

However, how often is a single field of view / magnification range perfect for the job ? I seldom want to give up a 3x or 4x magnification range. The exceptions are with limited range weapons. Muzzle loader, .22 or pellet gun. If you are not going to shoot much more than 130 yards, then having a 4x, 6x or 10x scope might be suitable. Just watch out for close in targets at 10x...

Snipers have used fixed 10x scopes with mil dot reticles for a long time. But usually they choose the conditions under which they engage and the shooting position. Today it seems to be variable power scopes more often than not. With modern design, the weight difference is not as much as it used to be either.

I am beginning to wonder if I should have collected all the money I've spent on scopes for each rifle and instead gotten one S&B with a LaRue LT111 mount and good picatiny rails for each rifle.

I have never understood why a fixed power optic would be better than variable so that one is new to me. I'm not sure I'm clear on why that would be preferred.

 

[jonthomps]

A variable power, mil-based scope will suite you well. 3-4x on the low end and 12-20x on the high end. You get what you pay for so buy the best you can afford. Vortex, NF, Kahles, S&B - all make good stuff.