MRAD vs. MOA

[milo-2]

The difference between the increments is academic. Most can't call wind that accurately to begin with.

A more salient point is that doing math and percentages in increments of 10 and moving a decimal is somewhat easier than say, taking a base wind call of 5.25 moa, then adjusting it 30% for actual wind speed, then taking 70% of that to adjust for wind angle. Then rounding to the nearest .25moa.

For the hunter that stays under 500 yards, there is a simpler way.

Just take the wind speed in mph, and multiply by yardage in hundreds and divide by 3 for 30-06 class cartridges or 4 for magnum cartridges.

This gives drift in inches. It falls apart pretty quick past 500 yards, but will be within a couple inches out to 500.

Ex: 5mph x 5(hundreds)=25, 25/3=8.3 inches of drift.

Lol, so now instead of using an app on the phone, we open the calculator on the phone. IME, if wind speed is known and steady, things get easier. Let's quit, either system doable, I struggle with neither.
I need to go shooting.

 

[User4302021]

Lol, so now instead of using an app on the phone, we open the calculator on the phone. IME, if wind speed is known and steady, things get easier. Let's quit, either system doable, I struggle with neither.
I need to go shooting.

You can't multiply 5x5 to get 25 in your head? Or is it 25/3 you find difficult?

 

[milo-2]

You can't multiply 5x5 to get 25 in your head? Or is it 25/3 you find difficult?

The times are tough, the gazinta's off the chart. I choose not to when the biggest obstacle here is nailing the wind speed, I am out. If you want, start a new thread and put on a seminar.

 

[Buzzsaw]

MIL is the way most folks go, however, if everything you have and have used is MOA and you think in MOA, then stick with MOA

1000 time correct. It really is what you are used to and comfortable

 

[Ernie]

Looking at getting into long range shooting with a Vortex scope. I Have always had MOA scopes but have thought about getting an MRAD scope. Thoughts, concerns, comments on either one??

First, What kind or kinds of LR shooting are you wanting to get into?
Second, What are you most comfortable with?
Third, If you shoot with friends, what do most of them use?
Fourth, What will this gun/scope be used for?

I will call to a 1/4 MOA correction for others. Sometimes, I will be stuck in whether I should say come left 1.75 or 2 MOA (Same thing could be said for .1 MILs increments).
If you use a spotting scope that has a MIL or MOA reticle (Or if you are using a rifle scope with a {MOA/MIL} reticle in it) in it, you can, and should be precise in calling to the middle of the target.

 

[Doozy]

I would recommend you read this article from Precision Rifle Blog:

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/07/20/mil-vs-moa-an-objective-comparison/

And don't skip over the math section at the end! In my opinion, the ability to range a target with your reticle is the most important component to the decision of MIL vs MOA Decide how you would like to do this. (BTW, you have to have either First Focal Plane or know the exact magnification on a Second Focal Plane (which is rarely what the scope has stamped on the magnification turret)).

 

[misterc01]

Just to make it even more fun, I have great scope, and it has MOA turrets with MILrad reticle. It is a bit of fun to do that math in my head, but it is fun and I can figure out where to hit the middle, it is the holdovers that are my challenge!

 

[John Klingenberg]

I was a die hard MOA guy because i thought it was easier. But the truth is that most scopes are really set for inches and not MOA. MILs seem to be more accurate to me so I'm slowly switching my stuff to mils. The system of "10" is really easier to do quick calcs in your head.

 

[JimmyCP]

Looking at getting into long range shooting with a Vortex scope. I Have always had MOA scopes but have thought about getting an MRAD scope. Thoughts, concerns, comments on either one??

I shoot both. Got great deals on a mil scope or on moa, I buy.
But I'm also the guy out shooting targets on windy days from different angles to see what my loads are doing while the other 90% are sitting at home wishing it wasn't a windy day so they can go shoot.
I don't primarily rely on balistic apps or charts because testing on a target at ranges out to 1000 plus yards, I have never found one that was based off testing my rifle with my load to be exact.

But I'm also the guy that knows if I missed the shot, the odds are in favor that it was me the shooter that messed up.

So to shorten it up, learn what the downs and ups are from the guys arguing back and forth and learn both.

In my opinion for success is to know your rifle, optics, bullet, shot placement and the shooters abilities under the conditions to make the shot before you squeeze.

 

[SnowbirdUT]

I was a die hard MOA guy because i thought it was easier. But the truth is that most scopes are really set for inches and not MOA. MILs seem to be more accurate to me so I'm slowly switching my stuff to mils. The system of "10" is really easier to do quick calcs in your head.

I hunt and shoot long range 1 mile +. All my scopes are FFP and Mil Mil. By that I mean Mil reticle and mil turrets.

I made the decision to go mil 20 years ago when most people were using MOA. The reason I chose mil is because it is base 10 so it is easy to make adjustments in your head. I range everything in metric but you could easily use yards. Intuitively, (most likely like everyone on this thread) can make calls such as 1/3rd of a yard (one foot etc).

Once you start using mils, your spotters will start calling shots in mils so you won't use actual distance such as 5cm, 15 inches etc. Instead, your spotter will say .5 mil right and .8 mil high. Those calls are independent of the shooters preferred distance units.

One of the commenters on this thread mentioned that MOA is more accurate than Mil or vice versa. This is only partially correct. It is true that .1 MOA adjustment is < .1Mil at 100 yards but the difference is tiny. Your rifle has the same accuracy either way. When I get my dope from my range finder, it will give me a drop of say 3.26 Mils. I will just round up to 3.3 Mils and call it good. The SD in my MV as well as wind creates a much higher error than 0.04 mils at any range (at least for me). I am just not that good that I would notice the difference and switch back to MOA.

I have a number of friends that started out with MOA and have switched to Mil. They all used to give me crap for having a "Euro scope". Now there are a few MOA holdouts left and we give them a hard time.

One thing for sure. Once you've made a decision between MOA and MIL, stick with it. You will likely by spotting scopes with reticles in the future and you will want those to be consistent with your scopes. We have 7 or 8 FFP scopes in my family and they are all Mil so we can swap them among rifles and family members.

 

[Tangent]

It makes absolutely zero difference. Consider taking a trigonometry class from a local community college or adult learning center and learn to convert the two readily. The arguments for or against a unit are just silly. One is not inherently better or worse...they're just dimensionless units.

I bought a 'showroom demo' Mk5 in MOA this spring at an amazing price. And I'll be ordering an LRTS (milrad) from Cameraland this fall for a great price.

 

[JimmyCP]

To my it's more of a preference argument one being better than the other is mute.
It would be like saying," I won't buy a 6.5 caliber rifle because all I can find is .264 bullets.
If you can find a good deal on either one mil or moa buy it, learn it and be happy.

 

[Dirtrax]

I'm betting that if the military switched to cubits most would be singing its praises and switching over. I run both MOA and MIL. The former is my preference. I will agree if one is shooting in an environment where a preponderance of folks use one method it's a good idea to become familiar with it.

 

[Tank308]

I have both. Ranging unknown distances with a gen2 reticule in .2 increments seems to be the easiest. But everything else I don't see that there is any difference for me. I measure with my reticle hold to impact then adjust turret. If there calling corrections in mils and I have moa. Than .2 is 3 clicks. .3 is 4 clicks. 1 mil is 3.5 min. I have never done bad because of either. I had an instructor who only shoots mils shoot my rifle with an moa scope. 300 to 1000. With my dope card. His biggest correction was 2 clicks (half minute) He complained but shot better than me with my rifle. The reticule is your friend.