New old .25 cal wildcat

[.300 Dakota]

You are fireforming anyway to start with. So what the difference? That with any rifle that you shoot. New case need to be fireform. That can take 3 firing just get there.

This is technically true. The difference is that when foreforming with intent to produe a totally different case, I'm not performing load workup, doing serious target shooting, or hunting. I'm shooting JUST to form the case with which to do those other things with. Personally, I REload very little, but load quite a bit. I will continue to only use new brass as long as it's available. When I start reloading those fired pieces, loads generally have to be tweaked some because of just what you said. Don't like having to start over. If I do, then I'll only use those 1X and record the differece in loads so I can go back to the original when new brass is once again available. I will never say never, but I don't plan to go burn powder and primers just to form a case.

An example to your point: I tried my first 6mm Remington a couple years ago. Not improved or anything, just a straight forward 6mm Remington. The Hornady brass I was using increased by several grains of water (measured) after firing as compared to before. So much so, that the 1x could have been a whole other cartridge! Not sure if they used an oversized reamer or what.

 

[.300 Dakota]

I fire form the following with Cream of wheat and bullseye:

6ppc
6 BRX
6 Dasher
22/250 AI
243 AI
6 Rem AI
257 Roberts AI
280 AI

Some guys are now just using std pistol powder, I will try just using Bullseye next time.

ON colony varmints, I will fire form while killing. Cases are 100% formed with .4-.625 groups during fire forming if not smaller.

A while back, I asked a barrel company to send me a barrel blank that did not pass inspection, a long unturned blank. I had both ends chambered and Remage threaded, 280 AI and 7/08 AI, both with my reamers. I did this more for the practical side of being able to fire form hundreds of 280 AI for my brothers and nephews, and just threw in the 7/08 AI on a lark. I have yet to have a barrel chambered in 7/08 AI, but have dies and brass to do so. I run Wyatt's mag boxes on many of my Rem 700's, especially the short actions.

I would have been better off using it in my 2 previous attempts to make Ackley cases. I was fairly new to reloading then and listened to guys on forums. Wound up jamming a bullet into the lands and charging with a moderate load of a faster burning powder, but not nearly as fast as Bullseye. I ended up with formed cases, but length were anywhere from .005 to .040" shorter that the original parent case. Lengths were all over the place. They said I'd need to repeat the procedure, which I did, and still had great variation in length. Some got even shorter the 2nd time. Finally gave up. Components and time were all plentiful back then. I still did good with the .25-06 AI, but the .338-06 never panned out.

 

[ButterBean]

Absolutely awesome, I love anything in 25 cal except the Needmoor of course

 

[.300 Dakota]

.300 Dakota, I fire formed the 25/06 with 14g of Bullseye and a case full of cream of wheat, piece of paper towel to hold it all together. Cases came out 95% formed+. I started load development right there and got fantastic accuracy. Barrel gets really hot with just a tad of Bullseye, cool the barrel at 25 rounds. I shot thousands of the Sierra 90g bthp on coyotes, and jackrabbits, and one heck of an accurate bullet.

Today, I have a 257 Roberts AI, hope to shoot it soon as it is still a virgin.

With so few heavy high BC bullets available to the 25 cal crowd, I am hesitant to jump on board, but watching with great interest.

I form Win 264 WM brass to 257 Weatherby in one pass through the FULL LENGTH sizer, never loose a case, perfectly formed case...perfect. Start your load development right there on the spot.

Honestly, I have avoided doing this til now for that same reason. What if the gun doesn't like the 133gr Elite Hunter?? It's kinda going to have to, isn't it?! Again, Hammer has some monolithic bullets I can try that will hold together, but the BCs aren't nearlt as high, and they will fall below the minimum velocity limit at which Hammer says they'll perform as intended before I reach the minimum energy limit, thus shortening my range some. It's done now, so we'll see if I goofed. Honestly, I've never seen a Berger Elite Hunter that wouldn't shoot seated to touch the lands with its preferred powder.

 

[Mike Matteson]

This is technically true. The difference is that when foreforming with intent to produe a totally different case, I'm not performing load workup, doing serious target shooting, or hunting. I'm shooting JUST to form the case with which to do those other things with. Personally, I REload very little, but load quite a bit. I will continue to only use new brass as long as it's available. When I start reloading those fired pieces, loads generally have to be tweaked some because of just what you said. Don't like having to start over. If I do, then I'll only use those 1X and record the differece in loads so I can go back to the original when new brass is once again available. I will never say never, but I don't plan to go burn powder and primers just to form a case.

An example to your point: I tried my first 6mm Remington a couple years ago. Not improved or anything, just a straight forward 6mm Remington. The Hornady brass I was using increased by several grains of water (measured) after firing as compared to before. So much so, that the 1x could have been a whole other cartridge! Not sure if they used an oversized reamer or what.

That's fair enough. I do realize that components are hard to come by. I have just about completed one wildcat and kind of starting on a second one. So case are not built for those 2 rifles. I have a third one that not really on the shelves any longer either. It's a 308NMag. It was the forerunner of the 300WM. It's not as quick as the 300WM either, but close. Some brass cases are a lot cheaper than others too. The 308NM can easly be sized up from 300WM case. I believe this the second time I seen the shortages on components, possible the 3rd time.
I do like for fireform my cases, and I am look for very low ES & SD's. So there a lot or work to set them up. I also like to see what I can come up with in whatever case I am reloading for. Velocity and accurate are the things the really interest me. So I want to see where I can go with those 2 rifles.
Take Care!

 

[randy86314]

I agree with FEENIX that you don't need to justify your wildcat creation.
You seem to have scoured the world for brass.

Do you gave a drawing of your new cartridge, the .250 MDC ?

It's not too hard to get a reamer with minimum freebore and to install a new barrel.

 

[Mike Matteson]

It's just a 280AI case necked down to .257 caliber. That's the only change in case. I presently have almost 500 280AI case on hand. I have a blank bullet seating die on order and coming for the 257 caliber. I have a blank into the smith for the 6mm. I have 4-280AI FL Type S Redding dies presently. I may order out 1 more that will retain the final bushing size for the 257. It take that many times to reduce the 280AI case to 6mm. The way I don't have to change out the bushing each time, Just the die. Being I have a turret press, I haven't tried it yet to set up with all the dies in place. Spent the wheel to the next reduction.

 

[.300 Dakota]

I agree with FEENIX that you don't need to justify your wildcat creation.
You seem to have scoured the world for brass.

Do you gave a drawing of your new cartridge, the .250 MDC ?

It's not too hard to get a reamer with minimum freebore and to install a new barrel.

Sorry for just getting back. I don't have a drawing. I may ask Manson for one. They had a reamer onhand, but with only like .110" of freebore. It was then a very simple matter of using the same design and only altering the freebore and throat dimensions. It really is just a .264 Win Mag necked down with .250" of freebore. That should handle the 133 and 135gr Bergers nicely. Using a 7.5 twist Brux. With that much freebore, I may have to end up getting a Wyatt cut. The prototype will be in a proven blue printed Remington 700 action with the internals replaced and a sleeved bolt. If it shows promise (i.e. isn't slow and prints groups of 1/2 MOA or better, a 2nd production may be done on an aftermarket action. Takes awhile to get a fast twist .257 bore barrel. Brux only runs them twice a year, I believe is what they told me. For some reason, 1:10 is about all ypu can find on the shelf to order right away. I got the last one in heavy sporter size that Southern Precision had in this configuration.

 

[Calvin45]

I have just started a 25/280AI set up. Actions, barrel and reamer order. I have Peterson 280AI cases 500 count. Getting ready to order out more cases. That way I have a lot of cases.

The logic adds up!

At this rate of case acquisition yall be ordering your replacement barrel after you burn the first one out, and be ready to go with a mountain of once-fired brass

 

[adk hunter]

"Mr. BUTTER noneedmoreforme BEAN"

 

[.300 Dakota]

The logic adds up!

At this rate of case acquisition yall be ordering your replacement barrel after you burn the first one out, and be ready to go with a mountain of once-fired brass

The .264 Win Mag was known as a barrel burner from its inception. A .25cal version will be much more so. The trick is to spend very little time doing load work up, and puts the pressure on the designer to produce a load that performs to expectations QUICKLY.

 

[Calvin45]

The .264 Win Mag was known as a barrel burner from its inception. A .25cal version will be much more so. The trick is to spend very little time doing load work up, and puts the pressure on the designer to produce a load that performs to expectations QUICKLY.

As a 257 wby owner, I agree.

Got lucky (but also listened to what others said worked for them) and the first load I put together required no fiddling with depth and just a few rounds to find optimal charge with 7828 and hbn treated 100 grain Nosler b tips

Under an inch and 3700 fps from a 24 inch barrel. Leaving it alone haha

 

[RAGGED EDGE]

"Brux only runs them twice a year, I believe is what they told me. For some reason, 1:10 is about all ypu can find on the shelf to order right away. I got the last one in heavy sporter size that Southern Precision had in this configuration. "

Preferred Rifle Barrels out of Utah will make a 7.5 if you are willing to go button in 4-6 weeks. Mine, on a .25-06 AI is SWEET. Loves the 133 Berger and (cringe) R-25.

 

[FEENIX]

The .264 Win Mag was known as a barrel burner from its inception. A .25cal version will be much more so. The trick is to spend very little time doing load work up, and puts the pressure on the designer to produce a load that performs to expectations QUICKLY.

As a .257 WBY and .264 WM owner, I do not have barrel burner issues.

That's a tall order to put the pressure on the designer. Having said that, that's what wildcatters do. I just finished my 2nd wildcat design and very pleased with thus far.