New Mexico bans the use of scopes

[CMP70306]

Once again you're picking the most extreme case and trying to extrapolate that into the norm.

Lol!!! Now it's the people that can't see well? Streeeeeeetch…


I guess the fat guys should take atv off road…

The old guys should get them too…

The guys that just aren't good hunters should get special seasons…

And everyone can get a participation trophy.

You're the one claiming loads of people are out here killing elk at 800 yards with Gunwerks muzzleloaders. If that's your issue then stopping those rifles from being used should be the focus. Banning scopes reduces the chances for everyone but doesn't stop the guy from shooting elk at long range, he just switches to the Revic sights and shoots at 400 instead of 800 yards because he still has a ballistically superior rifle.

We have 13 people going muzzleloader hunting here in PA this weekend, rifles are a mix of Thompson Center, Traditions, CVA break actions and a couple really old inlines all with 3-9 or less power scopes. The one year we tried to hit a 9"x18" gong at 300 yards, not one person hit it and the farthest anyone has managed to kill a deer was at 240 yards. Those are the normal types of muzzleloaders being used and the Gunwerks is as much the exception today as the Whitworth and 59 Sharps were back then.

 

[Ucsdryder]

You're the one claiming loads of people are out here killing elk at 800 yards with Gunwerks muzzleloaders. If that's your issue then stopping those rifles from being used should be the focus. Banning scopes reduces the chances for everyone but doesn't stop the guy from shooting elk at long range, he just switches to the Revic sights and shoots at 400 instead of 800 yards because he still has a ballistically superior rifle.

We have 13 people going muzzleloader hunting here in PA this weekend, rifles are a mix of Thompson Center, Traditions, CVA break actions and a couple really old inlines all with 3-9 or less power scopes. The one year we tried to hit a 9"x18" gong at 300 yards, not one person hit it and the farthest anyone has managed to kill a deer was at 240 yards. Those are the normal types of muzzleloaders being used and the Gunwerks is as much the exception today as the Whitworth and 59 Sharps were back then.

So what's your issue with open sights then? I don't understand your point other than you can't shoot that far.

A muzzle loader is an had always been considered a primitive way of hunting. If you don't want to use it, then use a rifle during rifle season. It's no different than a crossbow. A crossbow isn't primitive and I'm happy they're illegal during archery season in most western states.


I'd love to see them take it further in some units. Bring back recurves, ball and patch flint locks, and non-shoulder rifle calibers in some units and watch the age class explode.

 

[Hard rock]

So what's your issue with open sights then? I don't understand your point other than you can't shoot that far.

A muzzle loader is an had always been considered a primitive way of hunting. If you don't want to use it, then use a rifle during rifle season. It's no different than a crossbow. A crossbow isn't primitive and I'm happy they're illegal during archery season in most western states.


I'd love to see them take it further in some units. Bring back recurves, ball and patch flint locks, and non-shoulder rifle calibers in some units and watch the age class explode.

What difference is this law going too make , if the majority of the shots are made around 200 yds or less . A scope just makes it easier too make a clean kill shot . The next law they will pass is you can only hunt with 6 x scope during rifle season. This is the same BS as the gun laws these liberals try too pass . Remember New Mexico isn't a conservative state. Like I posted earlier what will keep a hunter from having a scope in his back pack that he can guick connect too his muzzleloader then remove after his shot returning too open sights , and what punishment is he going too receive if he gets caught. This law will only apply too the honest law abiding hunter,just another stupid law on the books . I can shoot open sights with my old eyes pretty dang good , but there is a lot of young hunters that have eye problems and shouldn't be penalized. If this law was passed because of hunters shooting game at 800 yds with high powered scopes , then why didn't they just make it no more magnification than 2x or 4x max during muzzle loader season ?

 

[AZShooter]

A couple of things:

Smokeless powder is repeatedly mentioned. It is not allowed in NM.

We older guys that had cataract surgery usually have a replacement lens that either works for distance or close up. I opted for distance lens making irons sights a blur.

I talked to a NM Game and Fish office yesterday( 10-18-22). I was put on hold while the agent talked to someone. Was told they are waiting for finalized rules governing scopeless muzzleloaders.

Was told I could appeal to the director with documentation for some sort of waiver allowing, I am guessing, some sort of optic. The detail on what that might be is unknown at this time. Was told I would have to apply after I got the hunt permit. Would have to do it for every hunt every time. This is just a conversation. Will wait till we read something in print.

 

[CMP70306]

So what's your issue with open sights then? I don't understand your point other than you can't shoot that far.

A muzzle loader is an had always been considered a primitive way of hunting. If you don't want to use it, then use a rifle during rifle season. It's no different than a crossbow. A crossbow isn't primitive and I'm happy they're illegal during archery season in most western states.


I'd love to see them take it further in some units. Bring back recurves, ball and patch flint locks, and non-shoulder rifle calibers in some units and watch the age class explode.

Iron sights are inherently less precise and less useful than scopes at all ranges. While using irons on a number of different rifles I've had to pass on numerous shots, even at close range, due to lighting or other conditions that I easily could have made with a scope or even a red dot.

But that's deer hunting here in PA where it costs me $6.97 for a doe tag and I'm hunting on the family property so if I don't get a shot there is always next time and worst case I just shoot one in rifle. I'm not locked into a season specific tag thousands of miles from home watching years worth of savings and points go down the drain as a bull walks out of sight at 50 yards on the last day of my hunt because I can't make out my sights well enough to take an ethical shot.

I almost had it happen on my bison hunt this year, there were several shots I could have made, all under 200 yards with a scope but with the irons on my 1874 Sharps I wasn't able to make them due to various reasons. I was eventually able to make the shot at 120 yards on the second day and 7th stalk but if I hadn't got it done on that stalk I was seriously considering switching to my .300 Win Mag as I was running out of time to take my bull.

A modern crossbow may not be primitive but it really doesn't have much of a range advantage over a regular compound in the grand scheme of things. What it does allow is those in that range to more effectively kill an animal compared to a compound which should be the goal of all hunters. The whole archery/primitive weapons season is really just a way to artificially reduce the effectiveness of a hunter so that the game agencies can sell more tags and licenses.

Your last line shows what this whole thing is really about, it's not about the method you simply want less elk killed overall without reducing the number of tag and making it as difficult as possible for the early season is your idea of how it should be done.

 

[del2les]

Yes, but you still have to have good eyes. Mine are aging and fixed sights don't do it.

There are several corrective devices that can help. An adjustable diopter on the back tang/vernier can adjust to improve your sight picture. As for decades I have declining sight also, I've used these for Nat'l Match and other SR/LR target shooting. Also, I've seen shooting fiends have tiny correcting lenses placed into their peep sights and other devices used. Peep sights themselves often help with vision issues when compared to old style barrel mounted sights.

Years ago, most of these were available at Champions Choice and other target shooting suppliers.

 

[Rick Richard]

There are several corrective devices that can help. An adjustable diopter on the back tang/vernier can adjust to improve your sight picture. As for decades I have declining sight also, I've used these for Nat'l Match and other SR/LR target shooting. Also, I've seen shooting fiends have tiny correcting lenses placed into their peep sights and other devices used. Peep sights themselves often help with vision issues when compared to old style barrel mounted sights.

Years ago, most of these were available at Champions Choice and other target shooting suppliers.

I am hoping they will allow non magnifying devices such as a Red Dot…that will work for me.

 

[del2les]

Here is just one of numerous articles, past and present, explaining the benefits of a peep sight.

Rifle Peep Sights: How to Improve Your Vision? (Ultimate Guide)

Are you struggling with your vision while shooting with a rifle in low light conditions? We have described how rifle peep sight can improve your vision.

rangerpointstore.com

 

[Rick Richard]

Here is just one of numerous articles, past and present, explaining the benefits of a peep sight.

Rifle Peep Sights: How to Improve Your Vision? (Ultimate Guide)

Are you struggling with your vision while shooting with a rifle in low light conditions? We have described how rifle peep sight can improve your vision.

rangerpointstore.com

Not sure if I agree with"in low light conditions". I base this comment on the many years of using a peep on a bow. Maybe it's not the same.

 

[del2les]

Not sure if I agree with"in low light conditions". I base this comment on the many years of using a peep on a bow. Maybe it's not the same.

When compared to barrel mounted sights, it has always been an improvement for me. YMMV

 

[Tac-O]

There's some older guys in CO that use SeeAll sights on their MLs. I think they have a few that CO ok'd to use and some that aren't allowed, but they said they work great with their poor vision.

 

[Hard rock]

I am hoping they will allow non magnifying devices such as a Red Dot…that will work for me.

The law makers probably don't know the difference of a red dot and a scope, so good luck on that one.

 

[Hard rock]

The law makers probably don't know the difference of a red dot and a scope, so good luck on that one.

Bottom line I'm too dang old , for new laws.

 

[AZShooter]

Thanks Del2les for the information on peep sights. Never thought much about aperture size changing focal clarity. It reminded me of some handgun shooters using a small aperture piece that fits on their shooting glasses for same purpose.

Did some digging and found out Williams makes a muzzleloader sighting system with a rear peep with a front globe sight that has ten interchangeable reticles with multiple hold over points. see link below

I put one of William's rear aperture sights on a lever gun which improved groups but that was at least 12 yrs ago then sold it. (have no idea how my older eyes would work with it now) It had the ability to unscrew the aperture making it a ghost ring. Thinking there could be various diameter holes offered for that sight by Williams. Same rear sight is offered in the new muzzleloader sight.

link:

Ecommerce

shop.williamsgunsight.com