New at long range shooting, what would be considered an acceptional group at 800-1000yds?

[CanardNoir]

No Worries! But out at 800, 1000, 1500, and 1760 and BEYOND is where The BIG BOYS PLAY! NO ROOM for --------! ONLY FACTS and FIGURES! FACTS and FIGURES!
Theosmithjr

Technology now-frequently helps us compensate for age and line of sight distances.

 

[7mmTikkaShooter]

I was out yesterday and shot my first 800yd group with this particular rifle. I estimated my 200yd zero because this is a new rifle and I've only shot it one other time and that was at 100yds. 4 of my 5 shots were within about 3-1/3" of each other, the fifth shot caught a gust of wind that I never felt until 2 or 3 seconds after the shot. My horizontal dispersion was about 1/2" for 4 of the shots, with one shot being about 1-1/2" higher than my lowest.

Having never really shooting long range before it seemed like a good group to me. Unfortunately it was at the end of the day and I was only able to shoot the one group. View attachment 119786



In this pic you can see the fifth shot on the far right corner by the tape.

View attachment 119790

Short answer: For a hunting rifle, in my opinion, is basically 1 MOA or less so that 1 flier kind of screws it up for you.

Long answer: That target is some good shooting at 800. Lets be honest, sometimes a little luck, both good and bad, is involved with our shooting. First thing to look for is vertical dispersion and then grouping distance from POA. You caught a wind gust on 1 out of 5 (bad luck), otherwise this target looks really good. Your lateral dispersion at 800 isn't much different than the darn reticle width at 800 for the other 4. Vertical dispersion is pretty great for all 5. Well done! I would next try and adjust dope now that you have an idea where its at and try to see what it will do on another day. That way you can say it's shooting like you want and that it wasn't just good luck that put the first group together. If you can replicate that kind of grouping consistently at 800, closer to your POA, and maybe get your wind to work out or at least mitigate any fliers, then I'd say this is a pretty good shooting gun/ammo/shooter combo. It of course can get tighter, but I think you should feel proud of that performance.

 

[Truk505]

No Worries! But out at 800, 1000, 1500, and 1760 and BEYOND is where The BIG BOYS PLAY! NO ROOM for --------! ONLY FACTS and FIGURES! FACTS and FIGURES!
Theosmithjr

I'm not sure on what you consider a big boy, I'm actually not sure of the point you're trying to make, I was just wondering what is considered to be a good group out to 1000yds. I understand there's a lot more to long range shooting than range, dial, shoot.

From what I understand from the responses is moa is good, 1/2 moa is exceptional.

 

[theosmithjr]

I'm not sure on what you consider a big boy, I'm actually not sure of the point you're trying to make, I was just wondering what is considered to be a good group out to 1000yds.

From what I understand from the responses is moa is good, 1/2 moa is exceptional.

No no no sir. Not trying to make any point and meant NO DISRESPECT! That's the way I talk sir. All I meant is at those ranges I stated before is where REAL SHOOTERS PLAY! WELCOME to the CLUB! YOU'LL find that at those ranges there are ONLY FACTS & FIGURES!
Theosmithjr

 

[Truk505]

No no no sir. Not trying to make any point and meant NO DISRESPECT! That's the way I talk sir. All I meant is at those ranges I stated before is where REAL SHOOTERS PLAY! WELCOME to the CLUB! YOU'LL find that at those ranges ges there are ONLY FACTS & FIGURES!
Theosmithjr

It's a fun place to play, I'm looking forward to doing a lot more at long range, 1760 is my end goal.

 

[pony doctor]

Above average? Meaning better than average or larger than average? Horizontal or vertical or both combined?

When you get to long range just having the horizontal dispersion kept low is a sign of a good shooter, a solid rifle/load combo and good wind doping skills. Vertical distribution should IMHO not be bigger than 1MOA and honestly should be a good whack under that otherwise shooting at that distance may be somewhat less than satisfying to the casual shooter and positively disheartening to those on the higher end.

In reality with off the shelf guns if you're printing 1MOA at long range (so about 8.4" at 800 or about 10.5" at 1000) you're doing pretty darned well. Not spectacular but good and sufficient. Anything under that is better. With a custom rifle, I'd expect more of the hardware but not necessarily more of the shooter. One can easily negate the other.

A couple weeks ago I put a 3" group of 5 down at 800. That group was with only 1" of vertical distribution. Most of the error was in the wind holds. I was very happy with that group. My Coach then turned around and did the same thing at 900 and he was also very happy. When we bring long range groups to half-moa, we're high five-ing.

Honestly though that's not the particular paper I'd be racing for someone new to the game. Shooting at long range isn't, to me, about group size. It's about the ability to reliably engage at long range which to me means it's more helpful to be able to hit your target the first time, every time, in the vital zone. Send 1 and correct, to me, does not a skilled long range shooter make or display.

 

[pony doctor]

Previous reply's right on in my opinion. Shooting skills are what it is all about! If your rifle shoots 1/2 moa at 2-300 yards you should expect all rounds at 800 or longer to create a 4 inch pattern "dead on" center, unless you have wind! Experts with wind can even do this given constant predictable wind but there is no such thing as constant wind! Given and Elk at 800 yards, your kill zone is at least 1.5 maybe 2 MOA! Shot placement rules the table in hunting.

 

[C L M]

Above average? Meaning better than average or larger than average? Horizontal or vertical or both combined?

When you get to long range just having the horizontal dispersion kept low is a sign of a good shooter, a solid rifle/load combo and good wind doping skills. Vertical distribution should IMHO not be bigger than 1MOA and honestly should be a good whack under that otherwise shooting at that distance may be somewhat less than satisfying to the casual shooter and positively disheartening to those on the higher end.

In reality with off the shelf guns if you're printing 1MOA at long range (so about 8.4" at 800 or about 10.5" at 1000) you're doing pretty darned well. Not spectacular but good and sufficient. Anything under that is better. With a custom rifle, I'd expect more of the hardware but not necessarily more of the shooter. One can easily negate the other.

A couple weeks ago I put a 3" group of 5 down at 800. That group was with only 1" of vertical distribution. Most of the error was in the wind holds. I was very happy with that group. My Coach then turned around and did the same thing at 900 and he was also very happy. When we bring long range groups to half-moa, we're high five-ing.

Honestly though that's not the particular paper I'd be racing for someone new to the game. Shooting at long range isn't, to me, about group size. It's about the ability to reliably engage at long range which to me means it's more helpful to be able to hit your target the first time, every time, in the vital zone. Send 1 and correct, to me, does not a skilled long range shooter make or display.

 

[C L M]

I am 65 and have been shooting most of my life. I find it interesting listening to folks trying to find the right rifle for long distance...say 1000-1500 and my experience has always led me to spending the money on the glass you will put on that special rifle. I have had my Rem 300 WM Long Rifle (26 inch heavy-contour barrel) with a Kahntrol Clampon Muzzlebrake and jewel trigger (set ant 8 ounce trigger pull). I put a Viper PST optics on this thing and although I strain to hit constantly at about 1000 yards with a grouping between 8-10 inches,

 

[C L M]

I am 65 and have been shooting most of my life. I find it interesting listening to folks trying to find the right rifle for long distance...say 1000-1500 and my experience has always led me to spending the money on the glass you will put on that special rifle. I have had my Rem 300 WM Long Rifle (26 inch heavy-contour barrel) with a Kahntrol Clampon Muzzlebrake and jewel trigger (set ant 8 ounce trigger pull). I put a Viper PST optics on this thing and although I strain to hit constantly at about 1000 yards with a grouping between 8-10 inches,

 

[C L M]

I believe if I spend the $$$ for optics that would give me a better painted picture I could close the group. My MOA is between 1/2 to 1. How many of the expert shooters out there would agree with this statement...whatever you paid for your rifle, expect to pay the same or double for the optics?

 

[C L M]

Since long range shooting is not a typical hunting rifle for shooting...lets say up to and around 300 yards, optics that can reach out and touch a target at 1/2 to 1 mile will cost you $5,000-8,000.

 

[C L M]

This sport is not a cheap hobby and if you plan on being the best and pride yourself at being an expert, you need to be an expert on reloading your rounds for constancy and accuracy.

 

[C L M]

I use Berger 185 gn hybrid VLD, IRM 4350 70 grain. I found the heaver the bullet the more accurate the round is down range.