New at long range shooting, what would be considered an acceptional group at 800-1000yds?

[Huntnaz]

Great shooting I myself have had my first long range hunting rifle built. It has been a blast although not shooting as well as you yet.

 

[entoptics]

I think "average" is a lot worse than you'll probably hear on the internet. It's normal to hear "The group was actually smaller, but I pulled that one shot out of the group". You never hear "The group was actually bigger, but I pulled that one shot into the group". Statistically, both happen the same amount, but most often the former is ignored.

I also don't subscribe to the "This rifle is capable of 0.0XX MOA" because it's printed a few small groups from time to time. For a hunting rifle, the long term average is ALL that matters.

With a hunting rig...

If you can keep the bullet within ~1/2 MOA from the bullseye, 9 outa 10 shots, I'd recon your doing "better than average".

For me and my Shilen barreled Savage hunting rifle, when looking at raw group sizes and ignoring POI, I consider less than 7/8 MOA to be "better than average" at 200 yds, and I add ~0.1 MOA for every 200 yds past that out to 1000 or so. If I put down a 12" group at 1000 yds, I'm pretty happy.

All in all, getting a good group is great fun, but frankly, always landing close to the X is what makes a good shooter.

 

[WildRose]

Title pretty much sums it up. I'm new to the longe range game and was wondering what would be considered an above average size group at 800-1000yds?

The first thing you have to decide before deciding what is acceptable is to set reasonable goals for whatever hunting/target venue you are choosing.

Depends on whether you're talking target venues or hunting. For me, anything sub MOA is very acceptable on game but it might not even get you in the running at many long range competitions unless you're shooting sub .5's.

Cold bore consistency plus two quick follow up's to me is the most important consideration with a hunting rifle but in competition you may be shooting 5-10rd strings repeatedly requiring much greater consistency.

I drilled a big sow this afternoon standing right in the edge of a field at a lazered 728yds. Saw her as I was driving along, lazed, dialed, guessed the wind, pulled the trigger.

Impact was just behind the shoulder at mid rib cage. You could see the "red mist" as the bullet passed through and she lurched about 3' in the same direction, made one jump to get back through the fence, did a cartwheel and it was over.

This was with a custom shop Model 70 .300 Rum, about a 1,500.00 Rifle when bought new. If I'd needed a followup or two I know with this particular load my POI would have been within 4-5" of my POA which is more than ample.

You can spend many thousands of dollars trying to get from .9-.3 MOA or less and still not accomplish it or sometimes you get lucky and find a .2 shooter right off of the rack.

 

[Joefrazell]

Good question. I've got a friend that I showed one of my groups to. It was a 8" group at 1178 yards. He said that's a big group. He has no experience in long range shooting and is under the impression that a good group at 1k is the size of a 50 cent piece. Until you gain some experience you just don't know.

To me a good group is relative to what your doing. Usually if you can hold under moa for a factory rifle your doin good. Custom guns should be capable of .5moa or better at extended range.

If it's a windy day and you ahoot a 10" group at 800 with only 3" of elevation thats not a bad group especially if your getting changing winds.

Most important part is hitting the target

 

[RD920]

Title pretty much sums it up. I'm new to the longe range game and was wondering what would be considered an above average size group at 800-1000yds?

What caliber?

 

[Deleted member 103481]

I think "average" is a lot worse than you'll probably hear on the internet. It's normal to hear "The group was actually smaller, but I pulled that one shot out of the group". You never hear "The group was actually bigger, but I pulled that one shot into the group". Statistically, both happen the same amount, but most often the former is ignored.

Ain't that the truth. Had someone online tell me yesterday they shot 10 shots into 2.5" at 1k with a factory bergara shooting factory ammo. I told them they needed to buy a few cases of that ammo lot.

I've also seen some shockingly popular youtubers call fliers on every single group as well as others flat out lie about group sizes while showing the dang target.

Wild that there is a custom rifle industry when all these factory rifles shoot 1/2 MOA all day long....

Lastly, that target is well within "acceptable". IMO especially considering your circumstances. Nice shooting!

 

[Truk505]

What caliber?

I'm shooting a 7rem mag, 168gr VLD Elite Hunters.

 

[WildRose]

I was out yesterday and shot my first 800yd group with this particular rifle. I estimated my 200yd zero because this is a new rifle and I've only shot it one other time and that was at 100yds. 4 of my 5 shots were within about 3-1/3" of each other, the fifth shot caught a gust of wind that I never felt until 2 or 3 seconds after the shot. My horizontal dispersion was about 1/2" for 4 of the shots, with one shot being about 1-1/2" higher than my lowest.

Having never really shooting long range before it seemed like a good group to me. Unfortunately it was at the end of the day and I was only able to shoot the one group. View attachment 119786



In this pic you can see the fifth shot on the far right corner by the tape.

View attachment 119790

Very nice shooting considering the rifle isn't even broken in yet and for which you've done no load development.

Follow a good break in procedure cleaning the snot out of it for the first 40-80 rds and it should tighten up for you even more.

 

[WildRose]

I'm shooting a 7rem mag, 168gr VLD Elite Hunters.

Good combo for accuracy and tolerable recoil.

 

[Truk505]

Very nice shooting considering the rifle isn't even broken in yet and for which you've done no load development.

Follow a good break in procedure cleaning the snot out of it for the first 40-80 rds and it should tighten up for you even more.

It's a Gunwerks rifle. I called and asked what break in procedure I should do, they said each rifle has been fired 18-36 times and do not require any further break in. They build their rifles to shoot their ammo, or vise versa but whatever they do they gave me the load data for the rifle. I followed the recipe and ended up with sub half inch groups at 100yds. This is the result at 800yds. I have a bunch of 175gr VLD elite hunters loaded up, they didn't have any data for that particular bullet but they do have data for the 180gr eldm I'm going to try out as well.

It's a 1:8 twist.

 

[WildRose]

It's a Gunwerks rifle. I called and asked what break in procedure I should do, they said each rifle has been fired 18-36 times and do not require any further break in. They build their rifles to shoot their ammo, or vise versa but whatever they do they gave me the load data for the rifle. I followed the recipe and ended up with sub half inch groups at 100yds. This is the result at 800yds. I have a bunch of 175gr VLD elite hunters loaded up, they didn't have any data for that particular bullet but they do have data for the 180gr eldm I'm going to try out as well.

It's a 1:8 twist.

That's definitely an expensive route to take but for many a "turn key job" like that is well worth the investment.

With that twist rate you should be able to shoot just about any of the 7mm bullets on the Market today. Even a 1:9 is adequate for just about any of the 180's.

If you find yourself shooting mono's which I like better and better all the time just keep in mind that the bullets will be about 10% longer for the same weight so you need to be sure and look at twist rate recommendations when selecting them as they will be tighter than the TR for conventional bi metal bullets.

 

[Truk505]

That's definitely an expensive route to take but for many a "turn key job" like that is well worth the investment.

With that twist rate you should be able to shoot just about any of the 7mm bullets on the Market today. Even a 1:9 is adequate for just about any of the 180's.

If you find yourself shooting mono's which I like better and better all the time just keep in mind that the bullets will be about 10% longer for the same weight so you need to be sure and look at twist rate recommendations when selecting them as they will be tighter than the TR for conventional bi metal bullets.

I was at a point where if I had anymore rifles I'd need a new safe so I traded in a few to get the rifle. Two birds with one stone, now I have a new rifle and room in the safe!

It came out to about $9950us plus taxes for the package with a titanium action, proof barrel, carbon fiber stock, Swaro X5i scope, custom turret burnt, Gunwerks rings, quick detach sling, the case, break in and load data. When you add it up it's not too far off the cost of a quality custom build.

I was skeptical about the 1000yds out of the box sales pitch, but it seems to work, even for a novice like myself.

 

[bigngreen]

Exceptional groups in exceptional conditions I expect 4 inches at 1000 for three rounds on my hunting guns BUT that's when conditions and myself are as good as the load. I do my final load tuning shooting at 1000 yards too.
After I know the gun is tuned then we switch to cold bore random range targets, that's where tuning the weak link happens, learning the condition that I can read and make a well place cold bore shot and conditions I need to pass one or get to a range that I'm back in the zone.

 

[Greyfox]

I consider .5MOA or less at 1000 yards to be neccessary for my LRH and PRS rifles. More important then group size, particularly for LRH, is first shot cold bore accuracy which I target to be within .5MOA of point if aim.