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[ 07-11-2003: Message edited by: S1 ]
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Brent
Well-Known Member
STL_Shooter
Well-Known Member
Once again, I am in rare form - roused from the peaceful sleep of anonymity by the frequent use of my name - and emboldened by the memory of this not-so-tiny group that S1 shot with my 6mm right in the middle of some of my .5 MOAers...
Where, oh where, is that thing? I know it's around here somewhere...
Ahhh, nevermind. He'd probably just say it was my ammo anyhow...
Back, back, baaack to sleeeep.....
[ 01-06-2003: Message edited by: STL_Shooter ]
Where, oh where, is that thing? I know it's around here somewhere...
Ahhh, nevermind. He'd probably just say it was my ammo anyhow...
Back, back, baaack to sleeeep.....
[ 01-06-2003: Message edited by: STL_Shooter ]
Darryl Cassel
Well-Known Member
Hello S1 and STL Shooter
S1
Glad to see someone (you) have come up with a way to make the bipod guns shoot off a hard surface. Most have not been able to do that up till now. Way to go.
STL Shooter
As I was not aware of S1s procedure of "making a bipod gun shoot well" from a hard surface which led to the comment of "must have been lucky". I retract that statement from your fine results (which I had not seen before posting) with an S1 built rifle. You are the first one that I have heard of that did well with a bipod rifle. If you can do this "consistantly" then the proof is there. As you and I both know, there "IS" a lot of luck involved in Longrange shooting either at paper or animals when extending the range. Putting a bullet downrange 750 yds plus takes skill, but, the luck factor is ALWAYS there too.
15 years of 1000 yard competitive shooting at Williamsport has taught me that. I have missed two matches during that time frame.
When I see OR shoot in a relay that a World record is fired in and I watch the shooter in a high, switching wind and also struggling to get his brass out of the rifle and he is able to shoot a World Record when "everyone" else in that relay shot all over the paper----then there is a lot of luck. I have seen this happen on a few occasions and even shot in the same relay.
It was not credited to the ability of the shooter under those harsh conditions and rifle problems and that shooter agreed.
He even said he was NOT a wind dopper.
We strive for perfection, but the fact remains, there is a lot of luck in placing the bullet downrange at extreme range and I think most will agree.
S1
As far as the comment "half the size", I doubt if I could have done that with a group the size that "STL Shooter" shot. Possibly equal to, but half the size would have been a chore for me and my 62 year old eyes.
STL Shooter and S1
As far as a bet, I learned long ago that betting someone can come back to bite you. There's always someone better out there to put it on you. I guess you have to know who you are shooting against in that situation.
Now if we were shooting 1000 yards to start and out to 2000 & I get to use my 338/416 Rig Imp from a bench, I might consider something like that.
My bipod guns are for carry into longrange ridge areas where we glass with bigeyes out to 1250 yards plus and stay there all day after backpacking our lighter equipment in.
The area is pre ranged and we have a book/picture showing all the ranges in our view. This works out very nice when hunting the same area. You don't have to range before each shot, just look at your picture or map with the ranges already written in.
I use a long barreled 7/300 Weatherby with a bipod for this and it has done well for me out to that range as per "killing." As for target work at that range, from a hard surface, I would always get flyers at 1000 yds and the barrel "is" free floated. Could be me, could be the loads,(I thought) but I always blamed it on a hard surface and the bipod. When I took off the bipod and shot the same rifle at the same range, from an adjustable rest, the flyers eleminated themselves. Go figure.
Oh well, I guess S1 has found a way to make them shoot from a bipod and that's good news.
He has done his homework well.
Anyway thanks for the posts.
DC
[ 01-06-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
S1
Glad to see someone (you) have come up with a way to make the bipod guns shoot off a hard surface. Most have not been able to do that up till now. Way to go.
STL Shooter
As I was not aware of S1s procedure of "making a bipod gun shoot well" from a hard surface which led to the comment of "must have been lucky". I retract that statement from your fine results (which I had not seen before posting) with an S1 built rifle. You are the first one that I have heard of that did well with a bipod rifle. If you can do this "consistantly" then the proof is there. As you and I both know, there "IS" a lot of luck involved in Longrange shooting either at paper or animals when extending the range. Putting a bullet downrange 750 yds plus takes skill, but, the luck factor is ALWAYS there too.
15 years of 1000 yard competitive shooting at Williamsport has taught me that. I have missed two matches during that time frame.
When I see OR shoot in a relay that a World record is fired in and I watch the shooter in a high, switching wind and also struggling to get his brass out of the rifle and he is able to shoot a World Record when "everyone" else in that relay shot all over the paper----then there is a lot of luck. I have seen this happen on a few occasions and even shot in the same relay.
It was not credited to the ability of the shooter under those harsh conditions and rifle problems and that shooter agreed.
He even said he was NOT a wind dopper.
We strive for perfection, but the fact remains, there is a lot of luck in placing the bullet downrange at extreme range and I think most will agree.
S1
As far as the comment "half the size", I doubt if I could have done that with a group the size that "STL Shooter" shot. Possibly equal to, but half the size would have been a chore for me and my 62 year old eyes.
STL Shooter and S1
As far as a bet, I learned long ago that betting someone can come back to bite you. There's always someone better out there to put it on you. I guess you have to know who you are shooting against in that situation.
Now if we were shooting 1000 yards to start and out to 2000 & I get to use my 338/416 Rig Imp from a bench, I might consider something like that.
My bipod guns are for carry into longrange ridge areas where we glass with bigeyes out to 1250 yards plus and stay there all day after backpacking our lighter equipment in.
The area is pre ranged and we have a book/picture showing all the ranges in our view. This works out very nice when hunting the same area. You don't have to range before each shot, just look at your picture or map with the ranges already written in.
I use a long barreled 7/300 Weatherby with a bipod for this and it has done well for me out to that range as per "killing." As for target work at that range, from a hard surface, I would always get flyers at 1000 yds and the barrel "is" free floated. Could be me, could be the loads,(I thought) but I always blamed it on a hard surface and the bipod. When I took off the bipod and shot the same rifle at the same range, from an adjustable rest, the flyers eleminated themselves. Go figure.
Oh well, I guess S1 has found a way to make them shoot from a bipod and that's good news.
Anyway thanks for the posts.
DC
[ 01-06-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
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[ 07-11-2003: Message edited by: S1 ]
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[ 07-11-2003: Message edited by: S1 ]
Boyd Heaton
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Oh boy.................
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[ 07-11-2003: Message edited by: S1 ]
Darryl Cassel
Well-Known Member
S1
I like to find bones from time to time and if you have that "many" laying around your area, someday possibly I could make an inspection of such.
With that many bones you speak of, it must be "easy" to shoot a decent group out there and not need too much luck?
We need luck at Williamsport though. Shooting over water and wind coming across the range in 3 different directions at one time causes some real problems to the shooters.
In my last post concerning the comment I make about the blind dog---- I was refering to me when "I" get lucky and shoot a decent group at Williamsport is what I say about my own group.
In reality though, there are VERY few bones laying around Williamsport to give out. You should come and give it a try sometime. We would like to have you and I will dare you to do so this summer if you have the time. Bob McCoy visted us from time to time before he passed away.
I will post the match dates after the 19th of this month which is after our Winter Board meeting.
Later
DC
I like to find bones from time to time and if you have that "many" laying around your area, someday possibly I could make an inspection of such.
With that many bones you speak of, it must be "easy" to shoot a decent group out there and not need too much luck?
We need luck at Williamsport though. Shooting over water and wind coming across the range in 3 different directions at one time causes some real problems to the shooters.
In my last post concerning the comment I make about the blind dog---- I was refering to me when "I" get lucky and shoot a decent group at Williamsport is what I say about my own group.
In reality though, there are VERY few bones laying around Williamsport to give out. You should come and give it a try sometime. We would like to have you and I will dare you to do so this summer if you have the time. Bob McCoy visted us from time to time before he passed away.
I will post the match dates after the 19th of this month which is after our Winter Board meeting.
Later
DC
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[ 07-11-2003: Message edited by: S1 ]
STL_Shooter
Well-Known Member
Shhhh, boys - please...
I'm trying to get some sleep...
I'm trying to get some sleep...
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[ 07-11-2003: Message edited by: S1 ]
Darryl Cassel
Well-Known Member
S1
It is a VERY difficult range to shoot at.
Sadly we have no real good wind dopers there because nobody has really figured the range out since it opened in 1967. just when you think you have it figured out, your target comes back with holes all over the place. Most of which was wind changes that were not seen or felt.
Even the Army team that came several years ago said they would not come back. They said they couldn't figure the range out. They camped there for the weekend. Even the Navy Seal team doesnt come anymore. 17" 10 shot groups were their best.
We have a sighter period of 6 mins where you can shoot an unlimited amount of spotters and the pit crew will spot each shot. At the end of the 6 min period there is a cease fire and then you start into your record string of ten shots. You have 10 mins to do this and none of the match rounds are spotted.
Come on over and play with us this summer.
later
DC
It is a VERY difficult range to shoot at.
Sadly we have no real good wind dopers there because nobody has really figured the range out since it opened in 1967. just when you think you have it figured out, your target comes back with holes all over the place. Most of which was wind changes that were not seen or felt.
Even the Army team that came several years ago said they would not come back. They said they couldn't figure the range out. They camped there for the weekend. Even the Navy Seal team doesnt come anymore. 17" 10 shot groups were their best.
We have a sighter period of 6 mins where you can shoot an unlimited amount of spotters and the pit crew will spot each shot. At the end of the 6 min period there is a cease fire and then you start into your record string of ten shots. You have 10 mins to do this and none of the match rounds are spotted.
Come on over and play with us this summer.
later
DC
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[ 07-11-2003: Message edited by: S1 ]
