New 270 boondoggle wildcat testing

[MudRunner2005]

Not to nit pick, but the 480 Ruger came out in 2003 and was a Hornady backed chambering that's doing very well in the handgun hunting community. Also, the 6.5 SS beats the PRC in every way, except for factory ammo, mass market support, affordable and readily available brass and dies, pressure tested load data and production guns. Other than that, the 6.5 SS wins every time.

I'll also point out that the Sherman line of wildcats stand on their own merit without the help of a supporter who, if I'm not mistaken, has yet to actually financially support the development of the Sherman line of wildcats by purchasing brass, dies or a reamer for any of them. At least I have a set of his 300 PRC S.I. dies on preorder and will rent or buy a reamer when the time comes.



I'm starting to think that 3800 is very possible. I have a handfull of 117gr Hammer Hunters left over from my 270 AR project a while back, so I'm going to see how fast I can get those moving. These are the bullets I have on hand:

117 Hammer Hunter, 140 BT, 140 Sierra TGK, 145 ELDx, 168gr Hammer Hunter

Rich fully-supports his customers, he does sell nice custom Whidden and Forster dies that are readily available, and ADG is making brass for him for a few of his cartridges.

Production guns are typically overrated, but it will make the proprietor lots of money, and will get their cartridge to the masses. Pressure-tested load data... That's funny, considering most cartridges are significantly under-pressured as-is, because they were standardized and tested back when powder and bullet availabilities were supremely limited. Factory ammo? Probably won't be too long before Rich will start offering that, if he gets enough people asking for it.

Oh, and also the .480 Ruger was kind of a joke... It never took off mainstream because it was nothing but a .454 caliber .44 Magnum length cartridge. .454 Casull stomps it in the dirt. Might as well just get a .44 Magnum.

 

[yorke-1]

Rich fully-supports his customers, he does sell nice custom Whidden and Forster dies that are readily available, and ADG is making brass for him for a few of his cartridges.

Production guns are typically overrated, but it will make the proprietor lots of money, and will get their cartridge to the masses. Pressure-tested load data... That's funny, considering most cartridges are significantly under-pressured as-is, because they were standardized and tested back when powder and bullet availabilities were supremely limited. Factory ammo? Probably won't be too long before Rich will start offering that, if he gets enough people asking for it.

Oh, and also the .480 Ruger was kind of a joke... It never took off mainstream because it was nothing but a .454 caliber .44 Magnum length cartridge. .454 Casull stomps it in the dirt. Might as well just get a .44 Magnum.

Yes he does support his customers, you'll see when you stop talking about how great his products and services are and actually put out some money to experience it first hand.

The 480 is not a 454 caliber it's a .475, that's why they called it the 480 Ruger. A 44 magnum length 454 caliber is what we typically refer to as the 45 Colt. Based on your response, I assume that you're not much of a handgun hunter. The difference between the 480 Ruger and 44 magnum is significant and anyone with first hand experience with both will tell you that. And those of us familiar with both the 44 Mag and 480, as well as the 41 mag, 454 Casull, 45 colt, 475 Linebaugh, 460 S&W, and 500 S&W can tell you about the advantages of each.

Now MudRunner2005 I'm going to make a request, I'd prefer to have a conversation with people who have actual first hand experience or legitimate questions that maybe some of the more experienced folks can answer. If you'd like to contribute to the conversation with actual first hand experience instead of internet wisdom, please stick around and contribute. Otherwise, please sit quietly while the adults are talking.

Andrew

 

[MudRunner2005]

Yes he does support his customers, you'll see when you stop talking about how great his products and services are and actually put out some money to experience it first hand.

The 480 is not a 454 caliber it's a .475, that's why they called it the 480 Ruger. A 44 magnum length 454 caliber is what we typically refer to as the 45 Colt. Based on your response, I assume that you're not much of a handgun hunter. The difference between the 480 Ruger and 44 magnum is significant and anyone with first hand experience with both will tell you that. And those of us familiar with both the 44 Mag and 480, as well as the 41 mag, 454 Casull, 45 colt, 475 Linebaugh, 460 S&W, and 500 S&W can tell you about the advantages of each.

Now MudRunner2005 I'm going to make a request, I'd prefer to have a conversation with people who have actual first hand experience or legitimate questions that maybe some of the more experienced folks can answer. If you'd like to contribute to the conversation with actual first hand experience instead of internet wisdom, please stick around and contribute. Otherwise, please sit quietly while the adults are talking.

Andrew

I'm glad you know me so well on a personal level that you can make an assumption and personal attacks like that. Shows your colors. Also that ego is showing, to assume all the knowledge I have is "internet wisdom", based simply on one of the handful of things I've gotten wrong. I never said I knew everything...Obviously you think you do...That's quite apparent by your comments. I see you have now chosen to drink the same kool-aid as several others we have floating around on here. Congrats on getting into their club.

I would like to experience Rich's wildcats first-hand, but you know, not everyone always has expendable income to spend on things that are not necessary to sustain life... Obviously you do. I don't have much, but what I do have, I worked for and earned. It may not be as nice and fancy as your stuff. I might not can afford $5,000 rifles with $2,000 scopes on them. But that doesn't mean my skill levels are below anyone else's. And if that's what you judge it on, that's a sad superficial way to live. Life happens, and we can't always afford to do what we want...Sometimes we have to do what we can and what is needed. Congrats for looking down your nose at those less fortunate than yourself.

And no, I'm not much of a handgun hunter. I do use and load for my .44 Mags and .357 Mags, but not much for hunting, mostly target shooting.

Now, I don't know who you think you are, and this is your thread so you can ask me not to comment on here, and I'll gladly oblige, but don't ever talk down to me. Nobody talks down to me...Not even my father. And I ****-sure ain't gonna take it from a stranger. I'm not here to make friends.

Now, enjoy the rest of your thread.

 

[cape cove]

@yorke-1
Man those Hammer bullets look impressive. That 168 gr Hammer looks like an ICBM. Wish I could get my hands on some of his bullets. Have you had a chance to hunt with the 168 gr Hammer yet.

 

[aushunter1]

Interesting project.
I like how easy it is for you guys in the USA to dream, build & execute a wildcat build.
Something we don't really have the luxury of here in Aus with lack of skilled smiths & also getting the dies made etc!

 

[johnnyk]

"So far I'm able to get the same performance but with different powders." I have only used US869 in my .270 AM, so far. It does "good" but I feel there are better powders out there. I am leery to try any due to the "powder bridging" issues I have read about. Have you found this to be an issue with your 270 BD?

"The Berger 170 wasn't out yet" Shoots great! "Wildcat was gone" I have a little over a hundred left! "I don't think Chinchaga was making bullets yet" I've never even heard of this one? "and Matrix bullets were tough to get" Got to try them.

"The full length RUM case was really too much case capacity for most of bullets available"
What is your case capacity?

 

[Alibiiv]

Interesting project.
I like how easy it is for you guys in the USA to dream, build & execute a wildcat build.
Something we don't really have the luxury of here in Aus with lack of skilled smiths & also getting the dies made etc!

Hi Aushunter, I am not familiar with Australian gun laws, so please bear with me. Curious if it would be possible to have a rifle built here in the U.S. and then have it shipped to Australia. Or would it be possible to order parts/dies here in the U.S. and have them shipped. I thought that I read that your gun laws in Australia are really strict and don't allow or the laws limit firearms. Again just curious about another country?

 

[therifleman556]

Now, I don't know who you think you are, and this is your thread so you can ask me not to comment on here, and I'll gladly oblige, but don't ever talk down to me. Nobody talks down to me...Not even my father. And I -----sure ain't gonna take it from a stranger. I'm not here to make friends.

Now, enjoy the rest of your thread.

 

[Rhovee]

How are you liking the brass? Have you had any blow ups shooting the bullets that fast?

 

[Wheeler co]

Guy with too much time on his hands.

 

[CA48]

This project started over a year ago and there have been a couple "complications, setbacks and minor inconveniences" along the way, but it's pretty much done and now it's time for the fun part. The initial cartridge design was based off of the 375 Ruger case but after the reamer broke while chambering the barrel, it was necessary to "adapt". What I ended up with essentially a 27 Nosler that's been lengthened by .130" so that it has the base to shoulder measurement of a 338 RUM case but the shoulder diameter and 35° shoulder angle of the 27 Nosler. The idea was to allow the use of ADG's 338 RUM brass (or any other RUM brass properly modified) but still be able to use 27 Nosler dies to neck size and bump the shoulder while waiting for custom dies to be made. Forming brass only requires necking a 338 RUM case down to 270, I used 300 SAUM and 270 WSM dies then annealed the brass before sizing it in a 27 Nosler die until the bolt closed on each case with a slight crush fit. The shoulder diameter and angle are completely formed after the first firing. Here's a 338 RUM case next to a once fired 27 Boondoggle case.

The specs on the build right now:
- ARC Nucleus action
- 28" Broughton 1-8.5" twist heavy varmint barrel
- 25" K&P 1-7" twist #5 heavy sporter
- Timney CE 2.5# trigger
- Stocky's VG2 stock w/Wyatt's bottom metal

The final specs on the build will still change as I decide what scope/trigger/stock I want. I don't hate the VG2 stock that it's in right now but the gun won't stay in there for long. I'm trying to find a sporter style stock that I like for the 25" barrel as well.

Here's a picture with a once fired 27 Boondoggle case next to some other cases for comparison. I couldn't find any 270 Weatherby or 270 WSM brass in my pile so I used a 300 WSM and 7mm Weatherby for comparison since they're both the same basic dimensions as their 270 counterparts.

270 Win, 300 WSM, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Weatherby, 27 Boondoggle

These are the expected performance numbers from the 28" barrel. The 25" barrel will likely be 75-100 fps slower.

130gr: 3600 fps
140gr: 3500 fps
150gr: 3400 fps
170gr: 3200 fps

Here are the velocity results from today's testing. This was one shot at each powder charge while looking for max pressure.

Temp: 38°
Bullet: 145gr Hornady ELDx
OAL: 3.530"
Barrel: 28" Broughton 1-8.5"
Powder: Retumbo
Primer: Fed 215
Brass: ADG 338 RUM

90.0gr: 3489 fps
91.0gr: 3489 fps
92.0gr: 3541 fps
93.0gr: 3610 fps
94.0gr: 3626 fps

-------------------------------------------------------

Temp: 38°
Bullet: 145gr Hornady ELDx
OAL: 3.530"
Barrel: 28" Broughton 1-8.5"
Powder: IMR 7828
Primer: Fed 215
Brass: ADG 338 RUM

80.0gr: 3318 fps
81.0gr: 3337 fps
82.0gr: 3378 fps
83.0gr: 3411 fps
84.0gr: 3491 fps
85.0gr: 3484 fps
86.0gr: 3536 fps
87.0gr: 3551 fps
88.0gr: 3616 fps


The flat spots you see in the velocity in both the Retumbo (between 90 and 91gr) and IMR 7828 data (between 84 and 85gr) correspond with shots fired from a clean barrel. The barrel was cleaned after the 84.0gr and 88.0gr IMR 7828 charges and then the 90.0gr charge of Retumbo was fired.

I stopped shooting with both powders once I started to feel resistance on the primary extraction when opening the bolt. The 88.0gr charge of IMR 7828 would be a workable max charge. The 93.0gr charge of Retumbo would be a working max and I consider the 94.0gr charge of Retumbo too hot. The velocities I got are consistently 100 fps faster than what Quickload predicted, but the pressures seem to track pretty close. Based on this I feel pretty good about trusting the Quickload predictions.

From a function standpoint, everything worked great. All rounds were fed out of a 300 Win Mag AICS pattern magazine. The more I use the ARC Nucleus action, the more I like it. Feeding is incredibly smooth and ejection is perfect allowing me to either pull the case out of the action by hand or I can cycle the bolt fast and launch the brass 3 feet away.

Do you know what the coal will be with the 168 hh or 170 berger?

 

[Zorack]

This project started over a year ago and there have been a couple "complications, setbacks and minor inconveniences" along the way, but it's pretty much done and now it's time for the fun part. The initial cartridge design was based off of the 375 Ruger case but after the reamer broke while chambering the barrel, it was necessary to "adapt". What I ended up with essentially a 27 Nosler that's been lengthened by .130" so that it has the base to shoulder measurement of a 338 RUM case but the shoulder diameter and 35° shoulder angle of the 27 Nosler. The idea was to allow the use of ADG's 338 RUM brass (or any other RUM brass properly modified) but still be able to use 27 Nosler dies to neck size and bump the shoulder while waiting for custom dies to be made. Forming brass only requires necking a 338 RUM case down to 270, I used 300 SAUM and 270 WSM dies then annealed the brass before sizing it in a 27 Nosler die until the bolt closed on each case with a slight crush fit. The shoulder diameter and angle are completely formed after the first firing. Here's a 338 RUM case next to a once fired 27 Boondoggle case.

The specs on the build right now:
- ARC Nucleus action
- 28" Broughton 1-8.5" twist heavy varmint barrel
- 25" K&P 1-7" twist #5 heavy sporter
- Timney CE 2.5# trigger
- Stocky's VG2 stock w/Wyatt's bottom metal

The final specs on the build will still change as I decide what scope/trigger/stock I want. I don't hate the VG2 stock that it's in right now but the gun won't stay in there for long. I'm trying to find a sporter style stock that I like for the 25" barrel as well.

Here's a picture with a once fired 27 Boondoggle case next to some other cases for comparison. I couldn't find any 270 Weatherby or 270 WSM brass in my pile so I used a 300 WSM and 7mm Weatherby for comparison since they're both the same basic dimensions as their 270 counterparts.

270 Win, 300 WSM, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Weatherby, 27 Boondoggle

These are the expected performance numbers from the 28" barrel. The 25" barrel will likely be 75-100 fps slower.

130gr: 3600 fps
140gr: 3500 fps
150gr: 3400 fps
170gr: 3200 fps

Here are the velocity results from today's testing. This was one shot at each powder charge while looking for max pressure.

Temp: 38°
Bullet: 145gr Hornady ELDx
OAL: 3.530"
Barrel: 28" Broughton 1-8.5"
Powder: Retumbo
Primer: Fed 215
Brass: ADG 338 RUM

90.0gr: 3489 fps
91.0gr: 3489 fps
92.0gr: 3541 fps
93.0gr: 3610 fps
94.0gr: 3626 fps

-------------------------------------------------------

Temp: 38°
Bullet: 145gr Hornady ELDx
OAL: 3.530"
Barrel: 28" Broughton 1-8.5"
Powder: IMR 7828
Primer: Fed 215
Brass: ADG 338 RUM

80.0gr: 3318 fps
81.0gr: 3337 fps
82.0gr: 3378 fps
83.0gr: 3411 fps
84.0gr: 3491 fps
85.0gr: 3484 fps
86.0gr: 3536 fps
87.0gr: 3551 fps
88.0gr: 3616 fps


The flat spots you see in the velocity in both the Retumbo (between 90 and 91gr) and IMR 7828 data (between 84 and 85gr) correspond with shots fired from a clean barrel. The barrel was cleaned after the 84.0gr and 88.0gr IMR 7828 charges and then the 90.0gr charge of Retumbo was fired.

I stopped shooting with both powders once I started to feel resistance on the primary extraction when opening the bolt. The 88.0gr charge of IMR 7828 would be a workable max charge. The 93.0gr charge of Retumbo would be a working max and I consider the 94.0gr charge of Retumbo too hot. The velocities I got are consistently 100 fps faster than what Quickload predicted, but the pressures seem to track pretty close. Based on this I feel pretty good about trusting the Quickload predictions.

From a function standpoint, everything worked great. All rounds were fed out of a 300 Win Mag AICS pattern magazine. The more I use the ARC Nucleus action, the more I like it. Feeding is incredibly smooth and ejection is perfect allowing me to either pull the case out of the action by hand or I can cycle the bolt fast and launch the brass 3 feet away.

What type of life are you expecting from this round?

 

[bigngreen]

That 168 HH sure gets the wheels cranking! I find these threads interesting, I tend to do wildcats that run mild performance based on one bullet for one specific job in one specific action so while this is different than what usually trips my trigger, this case capacity and that one bullet kinda has an interesting vibe going!

 

[Gregory K VandeDrink]

I like this discussion because I too am a bit old school. I would like to see Nosler or Someone pickup the 25-06 and improve it with 130-150gr cartridges.