need help w/ M1A

[ak1251]

dzelenka, I got a bushmaster dcm(1 in 8") and have fired 200 rds of m855 62 grainers to get get the feel of the rifle. Found 68 gr HPBT's w/ 23 grains of Varget grouping very well but need more testing. Will be working up a load up for 77 and 80 grainers soon. My first match w/ this rifle is on the 05-22 so I better get to work. This is the first match AR(wieghted) I've fired and I can say I do prefer it to a standard AR. At lest it doesn't remind me of a BB gun w/ the added wieght! Bart, the M1a was new in the box and your right there was something wrong with it. It's someone elses problem now!!! Kevin, sorry about the TREKKY..... You are right about the cost of reloading and being able to do the work on the weapon inhouse. I've built two F-class rifles in 6.5x284. My oldest came so very very close to setting the juniors 20 round 300yard record with 193 10x and a 193 11x with the one I build for him. It was his first match!!! Can you tell I'm proud of him. Oh ya... he bet me by 4 points to boot.

 

[DZelenka]

Since you have Varget, just throw 24.0 gr of that under the 77s and 80s. It should shoot well. It is a pretty standard load. Nothing to really work up.

 

[Bart B]

After I was the first person on earth to shoot an M16 in NRA/DCM competition across the standard course if fire at the 1971 Nationals, I knew its basic design was going to be good. The guys on the USMC and Army teams who shot them agreed with me. We knew work was needed to learn how to make the parts fit right so they would go back into battery the same way after each shot.

The USN Rifle Team I was on had Redfield Int'l. rear sights on those rifles with 1:14 twist barrels made by Bo Clerke in California. We loaded Sierra 52-gr. HPMK boattail match bullets over IMR4895 powder in new primed Remington commercial brass. Another teammate and I filed down their front sights so they would appear the same width as the 600-yard bullseye. As the sight radius was bout 2/3rds that of a bolt gun with a 24 inch barrel, that Redfield sight gave about 1/3rd MOA adjustments per click.

Since then, the rifle's evolved into bolt action tube guns (Tubb 2000 and others) that are as accurate as the .308 Win. bolt guns were; the best of both will shoot inside 3 inches at 600 yards all day long. But the 22 and 24 caliber versions move less in recoil as the bullet goes down the barrel so they're easier to shoot accurately.

 

[DZelenka]

Bart,

The AMU has 4 of its team members shooting Tubbs in .260 Rem this year. Of course Sherri Gallagher set the National Championship record with a 2396-161x (followed closely by Bernoskey with a 2395 shooting an AR). In the last 2 weeks the AMU has broken the 4 man team record twice. I am sure they will break it again sine at least 2 of the 4 have only been shooting the Tubb for about a month and a half. Less publicized was Brandon Green's 500-26x which is a new service record. Green also beat Sherri in the Bushmaster Cup and Big Ed's Championship so he should be a force to be reckoned with at Perry in August.

The AR style platform and its derivatives is maturing as a competition rifle and the results have been stunning.

Dan

 

[Kevin Thomas]

Hey Dan,

Haven't sent my entry in yet, but yeah, I'll be there for both CMP and NRA weeks. Actually, I'll be a bit earlier, since it sounds like I'll be doing the instructor thing at SAFS again this year.

Haven't had the chance to do nearly as much HP-XC shooting this year as I'd like, since I've been on the road so much lately. Have a major silhouette match coming up in a few weeks, and the Bianchi Cup the week after next.

But yeah, I'll be there!

 

[Kevin Thomas]

Bart,

Did you shoot with RJ Thomas? Would have been close to the right period there. He's yet another blast from the past, and a real fixture on HP ranges in SoCal at that time. Quite a guy.

 

[Bart B]

Bart, Did you shoot with RJ Thomas? Would have been close to the right period there. He's yet another blast from the past, and a real fixture on HP ranges in SoCal at that time. Quite a guy.

Yes, many times; knew him well. Commander R. J. Thomas was the USN rifle team's OIC when my son shot on the team. I shot many a match with RJ when he was an enlisted man. And he was awarded the Navy Cross for marksmanship and valor in 'Nam when the other services didn't like the fact that he was up for the Medal of Honor shooting more accurately in a stressful combat situation than they did.

RJ scored me in a 1000-yard match when I shot my 7.62 NATO Garand at Vandenberg AFB around 1970. The Navy unit's loading room guy didn't put powder in all the ammo so I had to shoot some unintentional "ball and dummy" firing. Had to go through 43 rounds to shoot 2 sighters and 20 record shots at that old LR target. Ended up with a 98-17V loosing 2 points to wind gusts. RJ said that was pretty decent considering half the ammo didn't have powder. Those Sierra 190's did well with 44 grains of IMR4320 in the case between them and the primers. The "clickers" ejected normally when I pulled back on the op rod; bullet didn't seem to have moved much at all and none stuck in the throat.

 

[Kevin Thomas]

Used to shoot with RJ quite a bit. He was a regular fixture (along with any of his newbie SEALs) at any of the SoCal matches from the stumps to Pendleton in the late 70s' to mid 80's. Yeah, the story about his Navy Cross is one that has to be read to be believed. I've told people what he did, and the circumstances around that fight, and no one can believe that it was downgraded (he was originally put in for a Medal of Honor). definately the sort of guy you want watching your back in a firefight, no question there.

That was a neat crew. He's still doing well, retired now, and living out west.

 

[Bart B]

Used to shoot with RJ quite a bit. . . . Yeah, the story about his Navy Cross is one that has to be read to be believed. I've told people what he did, and the circumstances around that fight, and no one can believe that it was downgraded (he was originally put in for a Medal of Honor). definately the sort of guy you want watching your back in a firefight, no question there.

For readers who don't know his event, think about a downed helo in North Viet Nam with wounded crew members and RJ was the only guy able to shoot did so with a .45 M1911 taking out many VC at ranges from a few feet away to near 100 yards while awaiting rescue. Not too shabby for a rifle shooter.

Talked with RJ at the Nationals one year, he said the only thing he regretted when in the Navy was he never made Chief Petty Officer. When he got out after 4 or so years as a Petty Officer Second Class then went to college and came back in the Navy as an officer. RJ always envied us CPO's and we oft time told him he would make a darned good officer. We think he took what we said to heart.

Best non-combat thing he told us was when asked by the SEAL folks what rate he wanted to be as all of them never did what their rating specialty was, RJ said he thought "Radarman" was the coolest thing to be called. So he was designated a Radarman for his Navy time and never spent one second of time in shipboard Combat Information Center where Radarmen normally did their thing watching radar displays.

 

[Kevin Thomas]

I'll add a bit to that; When the chopper went down, RJ was the only one left more or less functional. He was carrying a Stoner 63 (?) at the time, and found it wrapped around part of the airframe of the chopper. The only weapons available to him were the 45s the aircrew had on them. All were badly injured, and RJ managed to haul them out of the burning chopper to a paddy dike a short distance away. A full NVA force came to take them into captivity and charged their position. RJ dropped a few in the first charge, and as he put it, "that took a lot of the entusiasm out of them." He held them off for some time, while they mounted a few more frontal assaults, all with nothing but the M1911s. When they finally got some more air support to them and were able to extract them, they counted over 40 dead NVA around his perimiter.

Now here's the real kicker; RJ broke his back on impact, and was still able to pull the other guys out of the chopper, and hold off the NVA until the cavalry arrived. After recuperating, he stayed in the SEALs for the rest of his career. When I met him, he was the XO of Team Two, out of Coronado. Look up "genuine hero" in the dictionary, and it should have his picture in there somewhere. Quite a guy.

 

[ak1251]

Dan, will the 82 gr Bergers stablize with a 1-8 barrel or do they need a 1-7?

 

[DZelenka]

Dan, will the 82 gr Bergers stablize with a 1-8 barrel or do they need a 1-7?

Yes they will. One of my juniors shot a 199-7x at 600 yards two weeks ago using 82s in a stock Rock River National Match rifle. Load was 24.1gr of RL15 in a WCC case. That rifle has a 1:8" Wilson barrel with a Wylde chamber. It really doesn't get much better than that with a service rifle.

I saw you have Varget. Try 24.0 under the 82s. Set the bullets somewhere between .010" and .040" off of the lands. It should shoot just fine.

Dan

 

[ak1251]

Thank you Dan. I'll put some on my next Midway order.