ak1251
Well-Known Member
Yes, it is a standard m1a. I pulled the target out of the trash and it messured 18" by 16". I know it's not a match gun but I do believe it should at least hold 2 minutes.
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need help w/ M1A
- Thread starter ak1251
- Start date
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I don't know about 2 MOA, but it certainly should shoot better than 8 or 9. Where do you live? There may be a good M1A smith near you.
There is a reason the AR is so popular for highpower competition. They are easy and cheap to make shoot well. A decent AR will shoot better than the very best M1A and will cost 1/3 of the price. Add this to better trigger, better sights, less recoil, low maintenance and cheaper ammo and you can see why M1As are relegated to nostalgia matches.
By the way, I shoot an M1A and an M1 in highpower competition during the off season (after our state championship in October and before the first regional in March). We even shoot an M1 only match (50 shots across the course) for Pearl Harbor day. They are fun to shoot.
ak1251
Well-Known Member
I'm Spokane WA and I know a good smith who could fix it up, but why should I take it to him when it's not even shooting right w/ less than 300 rounds fired? And he wants $700 to get it match ready
The easy answer is "because that is what it takes." Now, on a more realistic front, have you spoken to Springfield Armory? They may tell you to send it back to them. There may be a problem they can take care of. Something could be rubbing somewhere. There are a lot of moving parts to keep running smoothly.
Also, what does your smith want to do for $700? I have a smith who built a full race M1 for me out of my parts for $125. It shoots lights out on its good days. Other days it seems to be possessed. (it is actually more than likely me.)
Dan
ak1251
Well-Known Member
He said that included bedding the action- timing the gas system and tuning the trigger. I thought he was out of his mind. I will be calling Springfield in the morning.
ak1251
Well-Known Member
I did pull the barrel/ action out of the stock looking for any wear/scuff marks and found nothing. I build bolt guns but don't even know were to start w/ this leamon.
He is out of his mind. Those things are expensive, but not that expensive. If Springfield can't help, call Hook Boutin in Bremen GA. He builds a good gun for a reasonable price. He may be listed as Gerald.
ak1251
Well-Known Member
THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT TOO!!! I've built very accurate bolt guns for that. But afler spending $1300 I expected a hole lot better. I did expect to have it tuned up next year but not $700.
I know you don't like them, but for the same $1300 you could have a White Oak Armament AR service rifle with a Geisselle trigger. It would be capable of 10 shot 1/2 MOA groups day in and day out with cleaning being the only maintenance. For the $700 that your gun plumber wants to tun the M1A, you could have a second match upper or a used CLE .22 upper for practice.
ak1251
Well-Known Member
OUCH... now your rubbing salt in my open wound..lol
I am the president of the Louisiana Shooting Association and the director of the state's junior highpower program. I get lots of adults and juniors started in the sport. I tell all of them what I am telling you. I am speaking from the voice of experience.
I will tell you that I got into highpower in 2001 after I bought a NM M1A. I was looking for something to do with the rifle and found the local match director on the net. I was hooked after my first match. The M1A lasted 4 matches before I retired it to the safe and bought a White Oak Precision upper and a RRA lower. I have been through 9 barrels on 3 uppers and in 25,000 rounds of ammo fired in competition and practice, I cannot remember a single malfunction.
Lots there not to like.
If you ever have any questions, let me know. I am happy to help.
Dan
ak1251
Well-Known Member
Well, it's boxed up and on it's why back to Springfield. We'll see what they have to say>
One interesting thing about accuracy with the US government M1 and M14 rifles is one interesting thing they didn't do when their marksmanship units rebuilt them for competition. None of them ever had their bolt faces squared up with the chamber/barrel axis. Some of their bolt faces are quite a bit out of square. And the commercial M1A is no exception to this.
This isn't an issue when using new cases; either commercial or Lake City match ammo. Their case heads are pretty square to start with. When they're fired, the case head tends to flatten well against the bolt face. Which ends up making the fired case head out of square. And no fired case sizing process squares them up.
When such a resized case is chambered in the rifle it was first fired in, it usually gets indexed someplace away from where it was first fired. This puts the high point of the case head somewhere where it will contact the bolt face at its edge. The chamber pressure point is now off center when it peaks. And this causes the barrel to whip in a different direction as the bullet goes down its bore and exit at a different angle relative to the line of sight.
The US Army Reserve Rifle Team (CWO4 Billy Atkins, Captain/Coach) probably did the best research on reloading fired LC match cases in their M14NM's. They tried all sorts of stuff but new cases always shot the most accurate. Same thing with the USMC, USN and USAF rifle teams with their 7.62 Garands and M14NM's. Creighton Audette did some extensive testing with bolt guns which also proved to have the same issue, although not as much as semiauto rifles do.
Best accuracy with 7.62 M1, M14NM and M1A rifles with commercial match ammo or handloaded ammo with new cases is about 4 inches at 600 yards. From machine rests (accuracy cradles), they'll do this. At 100 yards, accuracy's under 1/3 MOA, often better. Nobody consistantly shoots this well firing one of these rifles from the shoulder; in position or from a bench with the rifle resting on something and held hard against the shoulder.
Martin Hull (Sierra Bullets' first ballistician and the man who tested most of their 30 caliber match bullets for decades) told me years ago that he didn't like all the poor accuracy reports of their Match Kings from reloads using resized cases shot in M1's and M14/M1A's. His comment to me years ago was to the tune of "Nobody in their right mind should shoot resized cases in a rifle that's not had its bolt face squared up properly." But then most folks don't know this critical element of super accurate shooting.
All I'm doing is trying to enlighten folks.
This isn't an issue when using new cases; either commercial or Lake City match ammo. Their case heads are pretty square to start with. When they're fired, the case head tends to flatten well against the bolt face. Which ends up making the fired case head out of square. And no fired case sizing process squares them up.
When such a resized case is chambered in the rifle it was first fired in, it usually gets indexed someplace away from where it was first fired. This puts the high point of the case head somewhere where it will contact the bolt face at its edge. The chamber pressure point is now off center when it peaks. And this causes the barrel to whip in a different direction as the bullet goes down its bore and exit at a different angle relative to the line of sight.
The US Army Reserve Rifle Team (CWO4 Billy Atkins, Captain/Coach) probably did the best research on reloading fired LC match cases in their M14NM's. They tried all sorts of stuff but new cases always shot the most accurate. Same thing with the USMC, USN and USAF rifle teams with their 7.62 Garands and M14NM's. Creighton Audette did some extensive testing with bolt guns which also proved to have the same issue, although not as much as semiauto rifles do.
Best accuracy with 7.62 M1, M14NM and M1A rifles with commercial match ammo or handloaded ammo with new cases is about 4 inches at 600 yards. From machine rests (accuracy cradles), they'll do this. At 100 yards, accuracy's under 1/3 MOA, often better. Nobody consistantly shoots this well firing one of these rifles from the shoulder; in position or from a bench with the rifle resting on something and held hard against the shoulder.
Martin Hull (Sierra Bullets' first ballistician and the man who tested most of their 30 caliber match bullets for decades) told me years ago that he didn't like all the poor accuracy reports of their Match Kings from reloads using resized cases shot in M1's and M14/M1A's. His comment to me years ago was to the tune of "Nobody in their right mind should shoot resized cases in a rifle that's not had its bolt face squared up properly." But then most folks don't know this critical element of super accurate shooting.
All I'm doing is trying to enlighten folks.
Kevin Thomas
Well-Known Member
Bart B,
How did you know Jim?
How did you know Jim?
