Neck Sizing Vs. Full Length Sizing and Neck Tension

[Buck Fever]

You are lucky there on the Winchester brass. I would show case separation in 3 to 4 firing. That ended with neck sizing. A lot of people don't like belted mag because of the separations. I stubble on to it a great many years ago. Part of that was I was using a 300WM NS Die for my 308NM. It only size about 3/4 or so of the neck.
Now I haven't tryied bumping my case, but will give it try someday.
Neck tension: Most of that is by how they group using different tensions. There is several people that feel that tension needs to be set by first under sizing the neck, then using a mandrel to expand the neck out to the size they want to set tension. You will need to watch for spring back on the necks. It will show up in a couple of days, I believe. I don't have problems with that. I feel most aren't cutting their necks for thickness, so the uneven neck is being put into the inside of the neck. That is the reason I believe the use of the mandral is to push even portion back out to the outside of the neck. Now I contine that if the neck is even to start with it doesn't matter or no mandrel is needed.
I feel that cutting your necks for thickness and at the same time even the wall of the neck out so it's not needed.
Something else to work on!

Spring back happens as soon as you remove the die from the case, not over days.

Conventional neck sizing in a full length die does size the neck too small and then expand it back with the neck expander on the decapping stem as it pulls out of the sized case.

A collet neck sizer has a mandrel that sets neck tension and the collet forms the neck around the mandrel. This also sets the neck concentricity and pushes any neck thickness variation to the outside of the neck. The thing to understand is this only undersizes the case neck minimally, by the expected amount of spring back (which happens essentially instantly when your collet die unlocks).

So bumping the shoulder just enough for easy chambering and collet neck sizing is how you resize with the minimal amount of brass working and thus work hardening.

Do that with neck turned brass, a tight chamber, annealing every time, case length trimming and sorting to have pretty much benchrest level brass prep.

Additional steps are depriming and cleaning before sizing. Some people ream primer pockets but some people say that messes them up if you are starting with Lapua brass.

Minimal brass working is a logical goal for precision reloading but to get that you need to understand every process that's happening both when you fire and when you reload.

 

[brant89]

excessive shoulder bump will cause case head separation never exceed .004 .002 is prefered

I only bump the shoulder on my bolt guns, but the aforementioned 5.56 ammo gets used in multiple different gas guns, so it's reloaded to SAAMI specs.

 

[Spoonbill]

I bump everything .002-003" at the shoulder with no issues and pockets wearing out first most of the time. Anneal every other firing and run .003" neck tension on everything. Works great for me and I am able to maintain low teens to single digit es/sd.
Tried the neck only thing was a pain to FL size every 4 or 5 firings wasnt getting any better results that I could tell. I try and keep things simple as possible. I used to be real particular about loading and all the "peace of mind things" but nowadays if i cant truly notice if it helps I dont do it.

This is exactly the issues, I have been attempting to get closer on. THANK YOU. Can you advise your dies and whose annealer you use??

 

[Spoonbill]

This is exactly the issues, I have been attempting to get closer on. THANK YOU. Can you advise your dies and whose annealer you use??

Please excuse the typing; I am still recovering from hand surgery.

 

[C-130 Dude]

This is exactly the issues, I have been attempting to get closer on. THANK YOU. Can you advise your dies and whose annealer you use??

Most of the dies out there work well. I use RCBS Match Master dies. A little more expensive than your basic ones, but the results are very nice. Several manufacturers make basic and more upgraded models of dies. Most all do the job well. I guess it comes down to what you want/need and brand preference. Lee, Lyman, Hornady, Forster, and Redding are some of the most common die makers. There are several custom die makers also. Pricing goes from mild to wild. I use an Annealeez for my annealing chores. It does the job well, and it didn't break the bank. As for case trimming, well that's the exception to the cost rule. I really hate case trimming. So I bought a Giraud. And would rather quit reloading than give it up! A Henderson is very good also. Similar costs. As they say, buy once, cry once. Stay safe and have fun.

 

[RUFFIAN R - NY]

Been using the Peterson 300 Win Mag LONG brass and have seen a difference in the brass life and results .. give it a try. May also try the 7MM Rem mag long brass . Only use these two for hunting.
Also I do anneal after my first reload.

 

[Spoonbill]

Most of the dies out there work well. I use RCBS Match Master dies. A little more expensive than your basic ones, but the results are very nice. Several manufacturers make basic and more upgraded models of dies. Most all do the job well. I guess it comes down to what you want/need and brand preference. Lee, Lyman, Hornady, Forster, and Redding are some of the most common die makers. There are several custom die makers also. Pricing goes from mild to wild. I use an Annealeez for my annealing chores. It does the job well, and it didn't break the bank. As for case trimming, well that's the exception to the cost rule. I really hate case trimming. So I bought a Giraud. And would rather quit reloading than give it up! A Henderson is very good also. Similar costs. As they say, buy once, cry once. Stay safe and have fun.

I'm with you on that case trimming, Brotha! I simply have not heard the mfg's you speek of. I was considering the Reddinh Body die for the Bump and Lee Collet for the neck, but dont know if i can get the .003 for the neck with their system. I suppose the simplest answer is to check our the RCBS system you use as well as the Redding Type S Bushing die.

 

[Pdyson]

The lee collet can do whatever you want as you can buy undersized mandrels or arbors that the collets squeeze the neck against… Or you can just wrap with some fine grit sandpaper pinched between your fingers and spin them with a cordless drill. some years ago I used them exclusively in all my bolt guns, every caliber from 243 to 300WM. In my experience out of the box they grip lightly, I'd estimate around .001 to .0015 neck tension after spring back. I would make at least 3 sizing strokes with my press handle, rotating the case a third of a turn each time. They make outstanding concentricity. Just beware of the brass spring back which seems to get worse as the brass work hardens. Annealing helps.
I'm using Redding "Type S" FL Bushing dies with the Short Action Customs bushings and the neck expander button removed. The bushings are expensive but the juice is worth the squeeze. In every caliber I've used them they have improved the consistency and concentricity. They never scratch or shave brass off the neck either. you Can get match grade performance from the cheapest bushing dies. I anneal with an annealeze machine but i would try one that doesn't have plastic wheels If you are going to anneal short cases like 222.

 

[Buckskinner]

I use a Redding Body Die and Lee Collet for several calibers bumping .001-.002" and it produces very accurate, concentric ammo with good brass life. I've done side by side comparisons of this method vs Redding Type S Bushing using a SAC bushing with negligible difference to the point of the extra step doesn't seem worth it to me.

I just purchased a SAC Modular Die for 6.5 PRC but have only sized a few cases as I'm still burning through new brass with the rifle. So far I really like the concept of the die sizing the base a little more than the shoulders which should help prevent clickers. Also like the shim system which is far easier to adjust .001 than using collar. The taper of the SAC bushing makes all the sense in the world as well.

 

[bubbaonpc]

Oh boy... This is gonna get interesting...
Just remember, it's your gun.. It's your fun. Find what works for each gun. I have rifles that a collet with a bump works.. My .204 demands FL Redding sizer, lite bump then an undersized Collet. To me, it's a labor of love and enjoyment. When it becomes a "pain"... It'll be time to quit. Trying different techniques it's part of them fun.

 

[C-130 Dude]

I'm with you on that case trimming, Brotha! I simply have not heard the mfg's you speek of. I was considering the Reddinh Body die for the Bump and Lee Collet for the neck, but dont know if i can get the .003 for the neck with their system. I suppose the simplest answer is to check our the RCBS system you use as well as the Redding Type S Bushing die.

The RCBS and Redding s dies are very good kit. The .003 you mention is sholder bump. I'm guessing? If so yes. They will. Its all how you setup your sizing die. A lower setup, more bump. (Too a point). If you really want to control bump easily, look at dies that have a micrometer function built in. Or get a click die lock from Whidden Gun Works. As an example. (I really like the Whidden. I use them on several of my dies not having micrometer function.) Check out die manufacturers making dies that do both the full length size and neck size at the same time. Saves time, money, equipment setup, and puts out a nice product. Such as the RCBS Match Master dies. Redding (and others) makes this also. Just so that you understand. I have no skin in the game here. All from personal experience. Stay safe and have fun !

 

[AZ-SHOOTER]

I use RCBS, Redding and hornady match grade dies. I have been using an Anneal-EZ annealer.

 

[Spoonbill]

I bump everything .002-003" at the shoulder with no issues and pockets wearing out first most of the time. Anneal every other firing and run .003" neck tension on everything. Works great for me and I am able to maintain low teens to single digit es/sd.
Tried the neck only thing was a pain to FL size every 4 or 5 firings wasnt getting any better results that I could tell. I try and keep things simple as possible. I used to be real particular about loading and all the "peace of mind things" but nowadays if i cant truly notice if it helps I dont do it.

I am very new to this hobby so forgive me for asking somewhat simple questions. What is your process and equipment?? DO you bump the shoulder back with some sort of special die and then do the neck tension with what die??

ANy help greatly appreciated

 

[Wedgy]

I am very new to this hobby so forgive me for asking somewhat simple questions. What is your process and equipment?? DO you bump the shoulder back with some sort of special die and then do the neck tension with what die??

ANy help greatly appreciated

Lots of videos to look at on YT;