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Neck sizing and case getting harder to pull out?
- Thread starter ronedog
- Start date
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WildRose
Well-Known Member
Save your money until you come across one of these.
https://www.google.com/search?q=red...hrome.0.0l6.7806j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
The only fads that happen in Benchrest are those that produce better accuracy. Everything gets tested you have have to prove it to win. Br shooters have the equipment and knowledge to test things most guys cant even see in their groups. Which is why all the accuracy we have today came from Br. Lots of guys that are not involved in competition think they know all about it.
I dont own a die that is not either redding, whidden, or harrell's $75 max so I dont know what experience your speaking from. Worst case you'll be a little over $100 to get a custom if you have a sloppy chamber
I dont own a die that is not either redding, whidden, or harrell's $75 max so I dont know what experience your speaking from. Worst case you'll be a little over $100 to get a custom if you have a sloppy chamber
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Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
The best money you can spend if your chamber is not matching up with a redding die
https://www.whiddengunworks.com/custom-reloading-dies/
https://www.whiddengunworks.com/custom-reloading-dies/
WildRose
Well-Known Member
There are no dies period which will perfectly match your chamber unless they are custom made to your chamber.
The rest really isn't worth further comment. BR fads come and go based on whateve the current wonder boy/girl is doing and or shooting.
As soon as the next one comes along that neck sizes only the fad will immediately shift back to neck sizing.
The next one that comes along shooting short necked cartridges, the fad will be to swing back towards shorter necked cartridges.
Same as it's always been.
Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
Your posts shows a lack of first hand experience on the subjects, but you do like to argue so I'll leave you alone.
To others that want to move up to current methods, do some research online, or make a post on accurate shooter. Ask questions and learn what works for the guys who are proving it by winning matches in the real world. Benchrest, F-open, F-tr, NRA high power, palma, match rifle, you name it. Your hunting rifle is built in the same manner as a competition rifle and will respond to the same methods.
Now, if you want to run a lower pressure load and do not want to learn to full length size properly you can neck size and get good results. However there will be no gain over full length sizing in regards to brass life or accuracy and you will have some issues, thus, this thread.
To others that want to move up to current methods, do some research online, or make a post on accurate shooter. Ask questions and learn what works for the guys who are proving it by winning matches in the real world. Benchrest, F-open, F-tr, NRA high power, palma, match rifle, you name it. Your hunting rifle is built in the same manner as a competition rifle and will respond to the same methods.
Now, if you want to run a lower pressure load and do not want to learn to full length size properly you can neck size and get good results. However there will be no gain over full length sizing in regards to brass life or accuracy and you will have some issues, thus, this thread.
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J E Custom
Well-Known Member
I realized long ago that dies are not a perfect match to the chamber unless they were reamed buy a sizing reamer of the same manufacture as the finish reamer and even it is not a perfect fit.
A fire formed case is as close as you can get and a neck sized case is very close except for the neck because it is sized for bullet grip. Leaving the die set for neck sizing and using a shell holder that is .001 or.002 thousandths thicker is a good way to do a controlled bump. I have over 50 die sets and over the years I have included a shell holder in each set so the sizing process would not change.
For my set up, when a cartridge starts to get tight on closing, I use a feeler gauge between the case head and the shell holder. I start with .001 gauge and go up from there until I get the fit I want. (I only want to reduce the area that is making the case tight). Once I see what it takes, I replace the feeler gauge with a small piece of shim stock the same thickness and the size of the case head and hold it in with a dab of grease under it.
This way I can adjust the amount of sizing required to do a minimum sizing using the same die. The amount of sizing required increases as the cases get older so this method giver me the flexibility I need. Also if you load a large number of cartridges you would need two or three different shell holders for each cartridge to get the benefit of this method. I like the shell holder method a lot, but for me it would require a bunch of shell holders for each cartridge and brands of cases (Thickness and toughness have an effect on how much sizing is required).
I am not a bench rest shooter, but think like one and my mentor was one so I will test everything that may/could help me, and I have developed what works best for me and my loading process. others have there own way of loading precision ammo, but this is just the way I do It.
Lots of good information to absorb and most of it very good.
J E CUSTOM
A fire formed case is as close as you can get and a neck sized case is very close except for the neck because it is sized for bullet grip. Leaving the die set for neck sizing and using a shell holder that is .001 or.002 thousandths thicker is a good way to do a controlled bump. I have over 50 die sets and over the years I have included a shell holder in each set so the sizing process would not change.
For my set up, when a cartridge starts to get tight on closing, I use a feeler gauge between the case head and the shell holder. I start with .001 gauge and go up from there until I get the fit I want. (I only want to reduce the area that is making the case tight). Once I see what it takes, I replace the feeler gauge with a small piece of shim stock the same thickness and the size of the case head and hold it in with a dab of grease under it.
This way I can adjust the amount of sizing required to do a minimum sizing using the same die. The amount of sizing required increases as the cases get older so this method giver me the flexibility I need. Also if you load a large number of cartridges you would need two or three different shell holders for each cartridge to get the benefit of this method. I like the shell holder method a lot, but for me it would require a bunch of shell holders for each cartridge and brands of cases (Thickness and toughness have an effect on how much sizing is required).
I am not a bench rest shooter, but think like one and my mentor was one so I will test everything that may/could help me, and I have developed what works best for me and my loading process. others have there own way of loading precision ammo, but this is just the way I do It.
Lots of good information to absorb and most of it very good.
J E CUSTOM
Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
Dont over think the die. If you are getting .0015-.003" of diameter reduction at the shoulder and .0005-.001" just above the extractor groove, then your FL sizing die is a very good match for your chamber and you will not wear out cases or have extraction problems. My 28 nosler, 30 nosler, 300 wsm, 7 saum, 338 edge, 280ai, reamers just to name a few will meet those sizing requirements with off the shelf redding or whidden dies. I have re-size reamers for wildcats that I have to make dies for but see no need with standard cartridges IF the smith is doing a good job and chambers are coming out to spec. Usually if I have a problem its not enough squeeze at the base of the case. I may only see .0003" and after a while that will cause a sticky extraction. The 28 and 30 nosler are like that, the redding dies need to be a little tighter at the base, so I just tweaked my reamer specs to work with the dies. The other option is to polish the back of the chamber on those a bit. But for the guys running them hot they will wear out primer pockets before that sizing issue shows up.
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xsn10s
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2016
- Messages
- 7,653
I think I use Ken Waters directions on neck sizing and partial FL sizing. I'll turn out my FL die a 1/2 turn or so for partial neck size. And on partial FL size I bump the shoulders back a couple thou while still getting good easy feeding. I've had one instance where either my case body or something swelled up on just bumping the shoulder. This made for hard bolt close. So after that I take the firing pin out of my bolt and test the partial FL sized cases for easy bolt close. I have a neck sizing die but it never worked well for me.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
That's basically the same method I used for most of the last 30 years.
It took me a bit to learn to propely set up the Neck Sizing dies but all of my NS dies are Redding so they do the job pretty well.
For the most part now I only do the FL sizing about every fifth load or so or whenever things start to get tight.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
I've been watching the fads come and go in the BR game for over 30 years.
Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
If you back off a full length size die to the point it is not pushing the shoulder back you will get hard bolt close. The reason is if you squeeze a case you make it longer. If the die does not push the shoulder back you now have a case longer to the shoulder than it came out of the chamber. You can measure this with your comparator when setting up the die. Keep threading the die in until you are shortening the case .002" or so. Thats full length sizing. Sizing the entire case. No such thing as partial full length sizing, either the full length of the case has been re sized or it has not.
xsn10s
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2016
- Messages
- 7,653
I had shoulder set back measured as measured on a RCBS Precision Mic. What I believe happened was I set the shoulder back but wasn't resizing the body enough. Or another way of saying it was I set the shoulder back enough to cause more swelling of the case body. Once I set the shoulder back a little more I had easy cycling of the cases.
Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
Pretty common to have setback of part of the shoulder only. If there is angle differences between the die and chamber or spring back in the shoulder. You did right by testing in the chamber and sizing accordingly. The best way to measure setback is if your smith makes you a bump gauge with the chamber reamer. That way if you measure .002" setback, thats exactly what you will have for clearance in the chamber.
