Neck size tension?

[TG-5150]

how big of a play does neck tension have on ES ? as i was reading this thread through it's the main ? i was coming up with and glad it kinda got brought up. Until now have wondered how much i have missed out on by relying on primer selection and the other basics to control ES.

 

[Rich Coyle]

tag

 

[TG-5150]

tag

ummm... is it to late to fake in that i was being sarcastic.

i have been reloading for a long time but have been like the shadetree type mechanic everybody goes to(everybody that doesn't reload). From the moment i started reading threads on this forum i never have stopped learning and hope i never do. Thanks in advance for all i am able to absorb from those whom are willing.

 

[L.Sherm]

I look at a load as like a recipe for a cake or cookies you have one so-so ingredient it's gonna be crap or mediocre at best with a load for a rifle I have seen primers, different powders, different weight charges of the same powder, neck tension all change E.S for the better or worse. Consistency in my opinion is the key so you know what's working or not.

 

[TG-5150]

yes sir, and i am just learning about neck tension. I bet i have gotten rid of at least three guns just because of not taking care of brass. what a Dork i am used to be. hahaha

 

[Ua26fitter]

Shot some Retumbo today under the 215 Bergers. It was a little more promising. Did a little work up to find pressure. Not sure if I did. It's a little strange. Velocity looked better as well as the group as I added more powder.

Kris

 

[RAT807]

My experience with Nosler brass has been it's not as consistent as Norma. The weight and thickness vary more which adds to the velocity swings. Case wall thickness variations and a health dose of power can leave the case in the shape of a banana after firing. I also noticed when shooting ladder tests, an increase in charge weights of .5 grains, the velocity would swing up and down. It didn't steadily increase as it should because of varying neck thicknesses. I could also feel some cases took more effort to seat the bullet.

I added a Hornady concentricity tool and a case neck thickness kit to go with it to check all my brass. I've had an RCBS neck turner so I should be set in an attempt at more consistent neck tension.
Nosler had many more necks that thickness varied .002 or more than the Norma brass. After turning the necks to have .001 or less neck variation, velocity was more stable and accuracy improved. I could bore you with many more details but it took more brass prep to get the Nosler cases shooting consistently and the Norma cases still shot more accurately.

Buy more brass than you plan to use. Weight sort or sort by neck tension and discard the inconsistent pieces and Nosler will do just fine. But Norma has proven better in my .280 and .264 mag

 

[Ua26fitter]

I

My experience with Nosler brass has been it's not as consistent as Norma. The weight and thickness vary more which adds to the velocity swings. Case wall thickness variations and a health dose of power can leave the case in the shape of a banana after firing. I also noticed when shooting ladder tests, an increase in charge weights of .5 grains, the velocity would swing up and down. It didn't steadily increase as it should because of varying neck thicknesses. I could also feel some cases took more effort to seat the bullet.

I added a Hornady concentricity tool and a case neck thickness kit to go with it to check all my brass. I've had an RCBS neck turner so I should be set in an attempt at more consistent neck tension.
Nosler had many more necks that thickness varied .002 or more than the Norma brass. After turning the necks to have .001 or less neck variation, velocity was more stable and accuracy improved. I could bore you with many more details but it took more brass prep to get the Nosler cases shooting consistently and the Norma cases still shot more accurately.

Buy more brass than you plan to use. Weight sort or sort by neck tension and discard the inconsistent pieces and Nosler will do just fine. But Norma has proven better in my .280 and .264 mag

I'm thinking this is part of the problem. The other day I took this gun with when I went to shoot my hunting rifle for a hunt later this week.
I shot a few rounds of Retumbo through the chronograph with stepped charges just looking for max pressure. I was pleasantly surprised with results but got to looking at previous notes and got to thinking. I think a lot of my problem is in the brass. I haven't sorted it.
When I get home from this trip I have some Bertram brass and dies that I'll make up some brass with. Probably going to need to invest in a neck turning set up. I suspect I'll have better results.
Kris

 

[TG-5150]

Ejector marks vary with brass hardness and not all brands of brass are created equal. My point being you could get ejector marks with one brand and none on another brand.

Military Lake City and commercial made brass for the military has the hardest brass in the base followed by Lapua.

In another forum a long range competitive shooter tested his Lapua brass below until he had brass flow into the ejector. He then backed off the load several grains knowing the elastic limits of the brass. As you can see in the chart below if he had tested Remington or softer cases he would have gotten ejector marks much sooner at a lower pressure. Another method is to measure base expansion just above the extractor groove.

How Hard is Your Brass? 5.56 and .223 Rem Base Hardness Tests
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...r-brass-5-56-and-223-rem-base-hardness-tests/

Simple Trick for Monitoring Pressure of Your Rifle Reloads
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/rel...-trick-monitoring-pressure-your-rifle-reloads

I'm cheap and buy bulk once fired Lake City 5.56 and 7.62 brass knowing the brass is made Ford Truck Tough.
Not only is the Lake City brass harder, the flash hole web is also thicker giving the base more radial strength. And this makes the primer pockets last longer before becoming oversized.

I have been using Lake City 7.62 brass for several years. Before the .308 became a 7mm-08 A.I. it was what i preferred to use. I would trim every 2-3 loadings, chamfer necks, clean primer pockets and brush neck. always have just wiped off the brass after resizing and when fully finished with a damp rag(vinegar). I think i may have trimmed sometimes before necessary. I have always liked loads on the higher ends of the chart. Until trolling this site and a few others for the last two years i didnt think weighing cases was critical.
one question i have is this: Is Lake City brass as easy to neck resize and fire form as the softer brasses are ? in my case it would be 7.62 necked to 7mm-08 to be fire formed to A.I.

 

[L.Sherm]

Anneal the LC brass and I see no problem that's what I do.

 

[TG-5150]

Anneal the LC brass and I see no problem that's what I do.

Thanks, I have been studying Annealing brass, Holly Cow is there alot of different methods....quench, dont quench, get red hot, dont get red hot. I am definitely open to suggestions here.

 

[L.Sherm]

I use a benchsource annealer, and air cool. If your new at it you can use templag and a torch to get the hang of it.

 

[TG-5150]

I use a benchsource annealer, and air cool. If your new at it you can use templag and a torch to get the hang of it.

I am new to this ! And have spent a few hours today studying different methods. I agree with the tempalaq.
this has brought up many questions. I am going to keep researching and see if i can study these questions out. If not the OCD will outweigh the ADDHD need to know the information or vise versa. Thanks

 

[Don A Parsons]

Tag.

Awesome thread for sure.

Don