My ultralight timber stick - building a 4 lb rifle

[kelly1]

Wildcat from Alberta

 

[kelly1]

Wildcat Composites is out of Canada, he can't ship to the US anymore because his insurance wouldn't cover him if he did. But if you know someone up there or ask a Canadian member on this site to buy and mail it to you it's legal, I think they are $450 US. I believe the Ultralight SA Rem 700 footprints finish up around 19oz and the tikka footprints finish up around 17oz. MPI is the only one I've heard of that would be a few oz lighter than your Manners.

I called MPI and Wildcat about a year ago because I was wanting to do a build like this. If I remember right the MPI finishes about the same as the wildcat after pillars, bedding and pad. MPI did say you could take off a few extra oz to get it to finish around 14-15oz. I can't remember what she called it but if they didn't add something that goes over and protects the foam you can get it that light. I think your good with the manners though myself. Your saving a lot of weight with your action choice and when you finish a stock at 14oz your balance point will be shifted forward more and strength might be a concern.

I just picked up a wildcat tikka stock from the classifieds. With the coating, pillars, bedding, half inch spacer, and the heavy thicker but pad ( probably ~4oz) it weighs 21 oz
I decided instead of using a custom ultra light action I would just use a tikka although it's heavier. Just more economical price wise for me but would love to have the Pierce action.

Right now with my 16" 243win t3 lite in the wildcat stock with Ti lug it's 5lbs 7oz bare rifle with factory bm 3rd mag. I shoot moly'd 55gr BT at 3625fps for coyotes. And just started using the 88gr sledge hammers at 3000 fps on hogs.

Once I change out the stock but pad and take the spacer out and drop a 16" t3 super light 308win in the stock with a lighter bolt handle, fluted bolt and lighter barrel due to the fluting and larger bore size it should drop it to ~4lbs 14oz

Scoped with vx3 2-8x36 ultralight and talleys
5lbs 8oz

Scoped with TBAC ultra 5
6lbs 2oz

The pierce action is 14-15oz lighter than the tikka so you should finish out 5lbs or under scoped rifle.

7-08 or 308 sound like good choices to me. I've also been thinking about getting a leupold vx freedom 1.5-4x20mm with MOA ring reticle at 9oz. With these low end ultralight optics that likely won't track well I want a reticle for hold overs.

I've only had this wildcat stock for a short period of time so still getting used to it. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with and your thoughts on the shoot ability of a rifle platform this light.

That will be a nice setup

 

[Airedale56]

You know, I didn't think about the bigger bores. A .338 federal or .358 winchester may deserve a look for a timber elk rifle.....though I wonder how recoil would be in a 5.5 lb rifle????? Ha ha

Cody,

ShootersCalculator.com | Recoil Calculator

An online calculator that calculates the recoil energy, impulse, and velocity of a firearm according to the firearm's weight, powder charge, bullet weight, and bullet muzzle velocity.

shooterscalculator.com

Foot pounds of recoil energy and recoil velocity both

John


Oops, just saw your post #45.
Nevermind.

 

[FrogFire7]

I have a Savage Light Weight Hunter in 7mm-08. Obviously a much different class of rifle than you are talking about, but it's a decently light rifle from factory. The main point I'm trying to get to is that I like the recoil level of the 7mm-08 in that rifle and it works really well on deer with copper bullets. (Side note, I have recovered every deer I've shot with copper bullets, but had nearly no blood trails with most of the deer I've shot with GMX bullets, maybe typical? All have piled up within 150 yards). I'd lean that way or 308 for elk, personally. From what I've seen from you, I have zero doubts you will have a well thought out cartridge selected and an EXCELLENT rifle in the end that will be well suited to your needs. I enjoy your threads on stuff like this!

 

[Bruce Treloar]

So this is going to take a while (couple years likely) to finish, as I really don't "need" this rifle, and it's also going to be a niche rifle as well. Either way though, every rifle I build has an intended purpose......and the following will be this one's.

I hunt a few different ways, usually I'm spot/shoot or spot/stalking from high vantage points, in rough country. I usually start out the year however, with archery, but I really don't put in a ton of effort on that. Other times though, especially now that my kids are wanting to go with me more, I find myself sneaking through the timber quietly, teaching them the ways of the woods, how to stalk, how to be quiet, how to navigate, and how to listen. While this is usually not as successful as high point glassing, I still find it very exciting, and love that my kids seem to enjoy it too, as we're constantly doing something.

I don't need this rifle to be extremely light, but it also doesn't need to be heavy. I look back at all my harvests with these kinds of hunts, and the farthest shot I can recall is a 250 yard shot across a meadow, with the average range being under 100 yards. So magnum power, or heavy rifle stability just isn't needed. Arguably, extreme accuracy isn't "needed" either, though I have my bets this one will shoot quite well for what it will be. What is important, is being quick and nimble handling, and having good pointability. Every animal I harvested hunting this way was taken within seconds of seeing it, often while they were moving. And, as I may be covering lot's of distance, I want it light, and also, just because, no other real good reason there ha ha. So, I might as well make it extreme in some fashion ha ha.

So, on to the build itself. Here will be the components, and the weights -

Manners MCS-UC, 13" LOP, ADL repeater - ~20 oz roughly with pillars, action screws, aluminum trigger gaurd and light bedding.

Pierce Skele-TI, left hand short action, .308 bolt face - ~ 15.9 oz

Rock creek #1 sporter contour, cut at 18", short shanked. Still undecided on what chambering, bore diameter could change it slightly.... - ~ 1 lb 15 oz

ADL mag box, spring and follower - ~ 4 oz estimated

Trigger Tech diamond - ~ 3 oz

This comes out to right at 4 lbs 10 oz for the bare rifle, maybe an oz or two more.

Tally rings - 3.5 oz

? SWFA SS 2.5-10 - 9.5 oz

So with that scope, would add 13 oz, putting it at 5 lbs 7 oz, unloaded, add about 3-4oz for 4 rounds of something like .243, .260, 6.5 creed, 7mm-08 or maybe .308. Then a sling like a skinny nylon sling, still under 6 lbs.

I will probably run a monolithic bullet of some flavor in it for hunting, as all shots will likely be close, and it will mainly be for elk. It is not going to be threaded, and no muzzle device, and I want to avoid magnum calibers for the sake of easier recoil in this ultra light, and also so I can have a very short shanked barrel. Right now I'm thinking .260ai, 6.5 creed, or 7mm-08. Any would kill elk splendidly inside 400ish yards this rifle will be designated for.

I think this would be super handy, and make a nice timber rifle. At this point, all I got is the Manners stock on order, thanks to their 20% off black Friday sale ha ha. I will update this thread slowly as it progresses, but it will be a fun process!

Can you still buy ammunition or components to have a nice first day out with this rifle.

 

[VLD Pilot]

So this is going to take a while (couple years likely) to finish, as I really don't "need" this rifle, and it's also going to be a niche rifle as well. Either way though, every rifle I build has an intended purpose......and the following will be this one's.

I hunt a few different ways, usually I'm spot/shoot or spot/stalking from high vantage points, in rough country. I usually start out the year however, with archery, but I really don't put in a ton of effort on that. Other times though, especially now that my kids are wanting to go with me more, I find myself sneaking through the timber quietly, teaching them the ways of the woods, how to stalk, how to be quiet, how to navigate, and how to listen. While this is usually not as successful as high point glassing, I still find it very exciting, and love that my kids seem to enjoy it too, as we're constantly doing something.

I don't need this rifle to be extremely light, but it also doesn't need to be heavy. I look back at all my harvests with these kinds of hunts, and the farthest shot I can recall is a 250 yard shot across a meadow, with the average range being under 100 yards. So magnum power, or heavy rifle stability just isn't needed. Arguably, extreme accuracy isn't "needed" either, though I have my bets this one will shoot quite well for what it will be. What is important, is being quick and nimble handling, and having good pointability. Every animal I harvested hunting this way was taken within seconds of seeing it, often while they were moving. And, as I may be covering lot's of distance, I want it light, and also, just because, no other real good reason there ha ha. So, I might as well make it extreme in some fashion ha ha.

So, on to the build itself. Here will be the components, and the weights -

Manners MCS-UC, 13" LOP, ADL repeater - ~20 oz roughly with pillars, action screws, aluminum trigger gaurd and light bedding.

Pierce Skele-TI, left hand short action, .308 bolt face - ~ 15.9 oz

Rock creek #1 sporter contour, cut at 18", short shanked. Still undecided on what chambering, bore diameter could change it slightly.... - ~ 1 lb 15 oz

ADL mag box, spring and follower - ~ 4 oz estimated

Trigger Tech diamond - ~ 3 oz

This comes out to right at 4 lbs 10 oz for the bare rifle, maybe an oz or two more.

Tally rings - 3.5 oz

? SWFA SS 2.5-10 - 9.5 oz

So with that scope, would add 13 oz, putting it at 5 lbs 7 oz, unloaded, add about 3-4oz for 4 rounds of something like .243, .260, 6.5 creed, 7mm-08 or maybe .308. Then a sling like a skinny nylon sling, still under 6 lbs.

I will probably run a monolithic bullet of some flavor in it for hunting, as all shots will likely be close, and it will mainly be for elk. It is not going to be threaded, and no muzzle device, and I want to avoid magnum calibers for the sake of easier recoil in this ultra light, and also so I can have a very short shanked barrel. Right now I'm thinking .260ai, 6.5 creed, or 7mm-08. Any would kill elk splendidly inside 400ish yards this rifle will be designated for.

I think this would be super handy, and make a nice timber rifle. At this point, all I got is the Manners stock on order, thanks to their 20% off black Friday sale ha ha. I will update this thread slowly as it progresses, but it will be a fun process!

I'm looking at a 7-08 myself similar to what your doing. I've got a bunch of Swift scirocco 150s on hand. Pierce action as well. Stock and barrel undecided at this point. Will be a 22" carbon sendero lite profile tho. Muzzle break definitely not needed. My last rifle (25-284) built with 133/135s has almost no recoil and it's around 8lbs. The 7-08 will be similar I'd expect recoil wise.

 

[ducky]

I'm currently looking at the Howa Superlite, a lot of rifle for under $1500. Beats your build by a couple of ounces. Of course I'm limited on chambers, but it would be a .308 anyway.

 

[COBrad]

After much research and a conversion with Malcolm Forbes a couple years ago I ordered a NULA in .284 Winchester. I've had enough bad experiences with a few of the scopes mentioned here to pass on cutting every last ounce from the scope and went with a NF 2.5-10. Ready to hunt weight is an even 7 lbs. I'm shooting 160 grain accubonds at a little over 2600 fps. It's been deadly on elk out to 380 yards and coyotes to 500. Gun shoots moa at 500 yards over a backpack. Looking for some 140 grain accubonds to try Forbes' suggested load over Imr 4350 at ~3K fps

 

[CA48]

It would be well worth the weight penalty to have a dependable scope.

The March compact tactical 1-15x42 would go well with a build like this. 21oz and can be had in FFP or SFP with good reticle options.

 

[codyadams]

It would be well worth the weight penalty to have a dependable scope.

The March compact tactical 1-15x42 would go well with a build like this. 21oz and can be had in FFP or SFP with good reticle options.

I had a not so great experience with March, however it was on a 9.5 lb .338 Norma mag. I won't put one on a heavy recoiling gun. I may consider one for a smaller chambering though

 

[Mr. Magoo]

After much research and a conversion with Malcolm Forbes a couple years ago I ordered a NULA in .284 Winchester. I've had enough bad experiences with a few of the scopes mentioned here to pass on cutting every last ounce from the scope and went with a NF 2.5-10. Ready to hunt weight is an even 7 lbs. I'm shooting 160 grain accubonds at a little over 2600 fps. It's been deadly on elk out to 380 yards and coyotes to 500. Gun shoots moa at 500 yards over a backpack. Looking for some 140 grain accubonds to try Forbes' suggested load over Imr 4350 at ~3K fps

Cool, I didnt realize he was a hunter. That's some nice hunting country on the trinchera.

 

[CA48]

I had a not so great experience with March, however it was on a 9.5 lb .338 Norma mag. I won't put one on a heavy recoiling gun. I may consider one for a smaller chambering though

I can see that happening with a light 338. Some of the March's are lighter for their size. Back when I had my 338AM running, Kirby recommended not running the March on it because he had another customer that had destroyed one on a 338AM, so I put a NF on that rifle.
Although for a hunting scope with most cartridges my March 3-24x52 is nice it's light and compact, but probably not the best scope for heavy recoiling rifles.

 

[comfisherman]

Seems like the March is overkill features wise for a 4lbd 0 to 300 rifle. Maybe a 12.7 oz z3 would be a better pairing. 300 even with a 260 is going to be on the edge of the hold vs dial threshold.

 

[tim_w]

For a timber gun (under 300 yd) setup is there really any need for a FFP scope? Or one over 10x power? I would want a scope that was durable and had good glass , good min low power. Not necessarily "great" glass. I save that for my long range scopes.

For durability and reliability, I am sorry to say, Leupold has dropped down on my list. I had almost nothing but them from the 80s-2k. IMO, there was a fundamental change in QC in over all build and that of their individual parts over the last 2 decades. Had a couple dudes. I am sure there are good ones, but for me, I have seen way to many issues to have confidence. Would always be wondering if today is the day its going to go tits up. Still it's hard for me to pass up on models like the Mark 5HD as it's specs would be a great fit.

In the end, I would rather have a scope that was dead on reliable and accurate.

One scope that might be worth considering and at a lower cost bracket is the Trijicon hunting scopes. For weight at 22 oz maybe take a look @ Trijicon Credo® HX 2.5-15x42 30mm. SFP and can be had well under a grand Trijicon Credo HX nice 2.5 low power 15 up top more than enough.

Honestly, the Trijicon line of these type scopes seems to fly under the radar and are a great deal. Japanese glass and all other parts and manf is Japanese and USA. No China sourcing.

Frankly, I can not find any failure or poor perf comments on any of the typical forums here, Hide, Rokslide, LRO.

I just picked up a Trij Tenmile 3-18x44 FFP 30mm MRAD Tree Ret Red/Green illum 24oz. Have not had it out hunting yet. So far though I am impressed even more so at the price range.

For me it is an ideal general hunting scope 0-1k FFP basic uncluttered tree ret. Clear glass, good turrets and comes with shade and Tenebraex flip caps. Found a home on my 21.5" 338 Mega 6.5lb bare. With this scope and m-brace rings ready to hunt 8.7lb including 4 rd of 250gr in the mag. Goal was 8-9lb rdh minus ammo.