My thoughts on solid copper bullets and in comparison to other bullet types.

[FEENIX]

Maybe see how they did testing, how many lots, how many tests on each bullet, SD on tests on each bullet, etc.

I am hoping he engages but I do not blame him for not doing so.

 

[xsn10s]

I am hoping he engages but I do not blame him for not doing so.

I was going to say earlier he'd have no motivation to say anything. We're lost some really knowledgeable people here due to some of the responses.

 

[HARPERC]

A similar test with lead would reveal quite a range as well.

Having seen variations in hardness from the same box of bullets, sample size becomes relevant

My Forrest Gump mind likes Steves box of chocolate chip cookie analogy. All cookies may not contain the same number of chips.

What drew me to Hammer's is their willingness to discuss material hardness. No other manufacturer of mono's, large or small was willing to do that.

I can also say first hand the reject material pile was substantial (big enough to make them tweeker royalty). It could have been turned into bullets at profit, but instead sold for scrap at a significant loss.

 

[trubkir17]

I am having trouble with content of the original post

1) Monolithic bullets were not invented because of the lead ban. The Barnes X was introduced in 1989 (initial concept ocurred in 1985) approximately 20 years before any lead ban occured for rifle ammunition.

2) Hydrostatic Shock is an oxymoron. The word hydrostatic refers to the pressure caused by a fluid when that fluid is at rest in a confined space; e.g. fluid at rest inside the walls of a cell. Once fluid is moving (caused by a bullet in this case) it is no longer static; therefore, in essence all damaged not caused by the impact of the bullet itself against tissue would be hydraulic in nature based on the common use of the words as opposed to labels created by the hunting/bullet industry.

The term Hydrostatic Shock as an entity unto its own bothered me as well. Your explanation makes sense to me as to why I felt that way.

3) "The reason why animals drop instantly with chest shots that do not directly strike the CNS, is due to hydrostatic shock transfer to the spine which passes through to the brain. Any high velocity cartridge along with a good bullet properly selected for the particular animal size imparts over half its energy within the first few inches of penetration, creating a shock wave. This electrical shock wave travels outwards via the rib cage until it reaches the spine and then continues through to the central nervous system in the brain (CNS). The result is an immediate loss of consciousness as the body shuts down for diagnostics (temporary coma).

The other really confusing thing to me is the sudden and magical generation of electricity and/or electrical force.

Please do not regard this as an attack on the OP. I imagine this to be a discussion around a campfire where we can ask for clarification and have civil laughs and minor disagreements.

 

[HARPERC]

With all of your interest in solid bullets of late and all the information you have posted it's made me curious so I used the search tab and found nothing so I'll ask, have you ever had jacket material and lead pureness tested in Berger Bullets compared to Hornady or Nosler?

Looked a bit and couldn't find such either.

 

[xsn10s]

Hmmmm well google me this..................

 

[xsn10s]

Maybe https://www.bruker.com/en/landingpages/bna/bruker-nano-analytics.html

 

[xsn10s]

 

[xsn10s]

Copper jackets aren't generally pure but more of an alloy. This is to reduce fouling so you don't necessarily want pure copper jackets.

 

[xsn10s]

When they first came out Barnes mono bullets were notorious for fouling. Which is why they coated them and then went to bands to reduce fouling.

 

[bigngreen]

There has been some basic testing on cup and core bullet not anything beyond an at home hardness tester and it's all over the board, as with a lot of stuff ease of the manufacturing process plays into the metallurgy!!

 

[xsn10s]

There has been some basic testing on cup and core bullet not anything beyond an at home hardness tester and it's all over the board, as with a lot of stuff ease of the manufacturing process plays into the metallurgy!!

Yup cost is always a concern in manufacturing. If you can't make it at a price the market can, or will bare then it becomes an issue.

 

[HARPERC]

Copper jackets aren't generally pure but more of an alloy. This is to reduce fouling so you don't necessarily want pure copper jackets.

Certainly true to a point. Composition consistency however would presumably matter. While sectioning is one valid comparison it tells us no more than how much material is present.

Extreme variation in terminal performance in cup and core is not exactly unheard of.

Then there is basic fairness in discussion..........

 

[xsn10s]

Certainly true to a point. Composition consistency however would presumably matter. While sectioning is one valid comparison it tells us no more than how much material is present.

Extreme variation in terminal performance in cup and core is not exactly unheard of.

Then there is basic fairness in discussion..........

yup that can happen. It's been reported with mono bullets too. And in fairness to both some reports aren't exactly accurate. While others might be a fair representation. We all have to glean what we can and make the best choice for our individual needs/ wants.