My frustration with the word "custom".

[Chas1]

Kinda of reminds about all the home builders out there that constantly use the words Custom Home Builder...ahh ya so long as the one you want is one of the 6 in their brochure. Now IMO a true custom home is when the builder asks you for the blueprints, cause you designed it from the ground up with an architect. IMO a custom firearm is one built by a gunsmith who builds guns from the ground up no 2 alike with premier quality parts to exacting standards.

 

[scott0303]

Can someone tell me which custom gunsmith makes their own action, bolt, trigger, stock and barrel ?

 

[skipglo]

I'd like to know if the rest of you roll your eyes at all of the "custom" guns on the auction sites, as well as the classified ads on forums like this one.

If you bought a bunch of readily available AR parts and threw them together in your basement, I might buy them, but if you call it "custom" and attempt to market it as a custom rifle, not only will I refuse to even think about buying it, but I will make assumptions about your character, your lineage, and I will assume that you beat puppies to death with bags of kittens.

I've seen instances where guys have rattle canned a stock in some poor attempt to create a camouflage pattern, and they call it "custom". Buy a $300 Bell and Carlson stock, change out two action screws, and now they think it is "custom", and it drives me nuts.. Is it just me?

Actually.... I've been wanting to say this for ALONG TIME. Well done!

 

[25WSM]

This subject can be argued till the end of time. Does it really matter. The very definition of the word custom just means it was made for a particular be customer. Customize just means it was changed to be more suited to what you do with it.
Order a stock from any company and specify your action and barrel contour and bottom metal choice and color and it's considered a custom order. If you later take that same stock and have it dipped in your favorite camo now it's customized.
Why does it matter if you build a rifle on a Bat or Borden or a Remington 700 make one custom or not. All the so called custom actions are built in batches to all be identical on the same types of machines used to build a 700. There is nothing custom about them. Sure they might have better tolerance and a few features that a 700 doesn't have but they are still the action time after time. If there are 100s of the same one built to the same spec then how is it custom.
I built guns for 30 yrs and I could say that none were custom or all of them were custom and be correct. Think about the early days a smith would hand make a muzzleloader. He made the barrel. Rifled the barrel. Made the trigger and lock assembly. Fitted a stock to it. All in his shop. That is a custom built rifle. But if he then built 100 more exactly like it would they still be custom. If the guys new or said make me one of those barrels. Now make me a trigger and lock. Make me a stock. All just like the other rifles. And the neighbor puts it together. It's identical in every regard to the other rifles. What does he have. Garage to some. Or the same to others.
I have never made my own action or barrel or trigger or scope or carbon/ fiberglass stock. All I do is take the components that a customer wants and make a rifle from those parts. I don't care if a customer brings me a savage and a cheapest barrel he could find and a plastic Tupperware stock. Once I put it together by definition it's a custom. Is it really? By definition yes. By everybody's opinion no. Same customer comes back with a Borden and a Kreiger and a McMillan and a Jewel trigger and I build it. Is it a custom? By definition yes. By everyone's opinion? Probably yes. But why? Not a single component on this one is custom. All those parts are mass produced too. So basically I don't care what people want to call their guns. Everyone will label them as they see fit.
I don't care what people call the rifles I build either. I basically call them rifles. Doesn't matter how much the parts cost it's still a rifle.
Webster didn't mention that the definition changes when referring to guns.
Shep

 

[mercerbear]

This subject can be argued till the end of time. Does it really matter. The very definition of the word custom just means it was made for a particular be customer. Customize just means it was changed to be more suited to what you do with it.
Order a stock from any company and specify your action and barrel contour and bottom metal choice and color and it's considered a custom order. If you later take that same stock and have it dipped in your favorite camo now it's customized.
Why does it matter if you build a rifle on a Bat or Borden or a Remington 700 make one custom or not. All the so called custom actions are built in batches to all be identical on the same types of machines used to build a 700. There is nothing custom about them. Sure they might have better tolerance and a few features that a 700 doesn't have but they are still the action time after time. If there are 100s of the same one built to the same spec then how is it custom.
I built guns for 30 yrs and I could say that none were custom or all of them were custom and be correct. Think about the early days a smith would hand make a muzzleloader. He made the barrel. Rifled the barrel. Made the trigger and lock assembly. Fitted a stock to it. All in his shop. That is a custom built rifle. But if he then built 100 more exactly like it would they still be custom. If the guys new or said make me one of those barrels. Now make me a trigger and lock. Make me a stock. All just like the other rifles. And the neighbor puts it together. It's identical in every regard to the other rifles. What does he have. Garage to some. Or the same to others.
I have never made my own action or barrel or trigger or scope or carbon/ fiberglass stock. All I do is take the components that a customer wants and make a rifle from those parts. I don't care if a customer brings me a savage and a cheapest barrel he could find and a plastic Tupperware stock. Once I put it together by definition it's a custom. Is it really? By definition yes. By everybody's opinion no. Same customer comes back with a Borden and a Kreiger and a McMillan and a Jewel trigger and I build it. Is it a custom? By definition yes. By everyone's opinion? Probably yes. But why? Not a single component on this one is custom. All those parts are mass produced too. So basically I don't care what people want to call their guns. Everyone will label them as they see fit.
I don't care what people call the rifles I build either. I basically call them rifles. Doesn't matter how much the parts cost it's still a rifle.
Webster didn't mention that the definition changes when referring to guns.
Shep

Great post. All very true.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

This subject can be argued till the end of time. Does it really matter. The very definition of the word custom just means it was made for a particular be customer. Customize just means it was changed to be more suited to what you do with it.
Order a stock from any company and specify your action and barrel contour and bottom metal choice and color and it's considered a custom order. If you later take that same stock and have it dipped in your favorite camo now it's customized.
Why does it matter if you build a rifle on a Bat or Borden or a Remington 700 make one custom or not. All the so called custom actions are built in batches to all be identical on the same types of machines used to build a 700. There is nothing custom about them. Sure they might have better tolerance and a few features that a 700 doesn't have but they are still the action time after time. If there are 100s of the same one built to the same spec then how is it custom.
I built guns for 30 yrs and I could say that none were custom or all of them were custom and be correct. Think about the early days a smith would hand make a muzzleloader. He made the barrel. Rifled the barrel. Made the trigger and lock assembly. Fitted a stock to it. All in his shop. That is a custom built rifle. But if he then built 100 more exactly like it would they still be custom. If the guys new or said make me one of those barrels. Now make me a trigger and lock. Make me a stock. All just like the other rifles. And the neighbor puts it together. It's identical in every regard to the other rifles. What does he have. Garage to some. Or the same to others.
I have never made my own action or barrel or trigger or scope or carbon/ fiberglass stock. All I do is take the components that a customer wants and make a rifle from those parts. I don't care if a customer brings me a savage and a cheapest barrel he could find and a plastic Tupperware stock. Once I put it together by definition it's a custom. Is it really? By definition yes. By everybody's opinion no. Same customer comes back with a Borden and a Kreiger and a McMillan and a Jewel trigger and I build it. Is it a custom? By definition yes. By everyone's opinion? Probably yes. But why? Not a single component on this one is custom. All those parts are mass produced too. So basically I don't care what people want to call their guns. Everyone will label them as they see fit.
I don't care what people call the rifles I build either. I basically call them rifles. Doesn't matter how much the parts cost it's still a rifle.
Webster didn't mention that the definition changes when referring to guns.
Shep

I see your point too. You definitely aren't wrong, because it is hard to put a fine point on. It seems we all mostly agree that most of the stuff people call custom aren't really custom rifles, but what we should call a "custom rifle" is more difficult to isolate.

 

[Mike Matteson]

It would be hard to argue that those rifles aren't the perfect example of a custom rifle. I'd be surprised if one could purchase any of their parts to build with, and even if you did, the sum of parts wouldn't be worth a fraction of the complete build when finished by them. There is so much value in having the entire project completed by and signed off by some of the best custom smiths on the planet.

Not really, Their people out there that build their own rifles at home that do a great job. They have all the machines to do the work, and know what they are doing. I am not and I know it. I was a carpenter by trade, but not a machines by trade. I use inches and fraction of inches, not tens of thousands. I do use those thousand in setting up reloading but that it.

 

[jshepherd61]

Ok, and I agree with you, but I'm not sure why. I guess the quality level of components are in line with what I would consider a "custom" rifle. If you contacted a custom rifle builder, those are all components that could reasonably be expected to make an appearance as options in your build.

Now, if you started with a Savage axis action, I don't care what you do, you have a Savage axis.

Well let's consider this then! Remington has a custom shop that builds "custom" one off 700 actions they sell as actions specific, they do not assemble the rifle. You buy and chamber a Bartleins carbon barrel, a Masterpiece Arms chassis, APA break, Jewel trigger. It's still a Remington 700. Do you consider it custom? At which step of eliminating parts does it become not a custom gun?

 

[JMW67]

I have never heard that remington is building one off actions where do we find these ?

 

[mercerbear]

I see your point too. You definitely aren't wrong, because it is hard to put a fine point on. It seems we all mostly agree that most of the stuff people call custom aren't really custom rifles, but what we should call a "custom rifle" is more difficult to isolate.

My biggest takeaway is that unless you are a well known gunsmith, a "custom" rifle that you have assembled yourself is going to be worth less than the sum total of the individual components.

 

[FrogFire7]

Spray painting something does not make it custom, that sort of thing should be sold as "Daniel Defense AR-15 with custom paint job." Or if you swap a stock it should be sold as "Bergara HMR with B&C stock."

I agree. But, what about if a guy takes a stock and uses an airbrush to lay a work of art onto it and then seals the whole thing with automotive clear coat? Still technically spray painted a stock.

I guess to me it's the difference in skill level and overall quality of the finished product. Just kind of stuck me as ironic that some of the most amazing stocks I've ever seen are "spray painted", just with a high dollar spray applier. And an infinite amount more skill.

 

[JMW67]

I believe this one can be argued till uncle joe becomes a republican call it what you want a good shooter is a good shooter the rest really dont matter ,and pretty does not make it a good shooter a shiny turd is still a turd

 

[Tarponhead]

A custom gun is one with custom engraving (by hand), inlays, and very fancy wood. All made to the purchasers specs. It shoots as good as it looks.
Parts from a catalog assembled is a project.

 

[ndking1126]

We all have a custom definition of what custom means. Maybe a wordsmith would be more helpful than a gunsmith on this one. They'd have us shooting straight faster than a speeding bullet. The more I think about it, this is a mark against marketing. It's clearer than the Nightforce scope I can't afford.