My frustration with the word "custom".

[Greyfox]

As this thread indicates, there is quite a bit of liberty taken when "custom" is used to describe, not only firearms, but numerous other items(cars, motorcycles, kitchen cabinets, etc, etc.) as well. My own personal interpretation assigns the concept of "bespoke" as has been eluded to by some in this thread. I personally consider an item custom when it's "built" to the specifications of an "individual"....Not a market, company, or particular group. If it is sold by that individual, it is no longer custom/bespoke. While it's characteristics may be quite compatible or desirable with a new buyer, it was not originally specified by that buyer and, at least to my mind, no longer custom or bespoke....But it may very well have some exquisite features or components affecting its value. Semi-custom to me is akin to semi-pregnant. While I realize that many may disagree with this narrow interpretation, it has served me quite well in my assessing, observing, buying and selling firearms, and I have never felt any frustration concerning the matter. IMO.

 

[Winnett1]

I'd like to know if the rest of you roll your eyes at all of the "custom" guns on the auction sites, as well as the classified ads on forums like this one.

If you bought a bunch of readily available AR parts and threw them together in your basement, I might buy them, but if you call it "custom" and attempt to market it as a custom rifle, not only will I refuse to even think about buying it, but I will make assumptions about your character, your lineage, and I will assume that you beat puppies to death with bags of kittens.

I've seen instances where guys have rattle canned a stock in some poor attempt to create a camouflage pattern, and they call it "custom". Buy a $300 Bell and Carlson stock, change out two action screws, and now they think it is "custom", and it drives me nuts.. Is it just me?

I agree with you. Most people don't know what a true custom firearm is

 

[JMW67]

were does the holland and holland royal double fall

 

[nikeandros]

if you bought a bunch of AR parts off the internet and assembled it, technically it is custom. it's not a factory M&P15 that all look the same. but yeah, i get where your coming from. i used to frequent a truck forum back in the day and people would describe them adding a k&n air filter as a

 

[Huggy]

I'd like to know if the rest of you roll your eyes at all of the "custom" guns on the auction sites, as well as the classified ads on forums like this one.

If you bought a bunch of readily available AR parts and threw them together in your basement, I might buy them, but if you call it "custom" and attempt to market it as a custom rifle, not only will I refuse to even think about buying it, but I will make assumptions about your character, your lineage, and I will assume that you beat puppies to death with bags of kittens.

I've seen instances where guys have rattle canned a stock in some poor attempt to create a camouflage pattern, and they call it "custom". Buy a $300 Bell and Carlson stock, change out two action screws, and now they think it is "custom", and it drives me nuts.. Is it just me?

It is all about marketing and the expectation that there is (hopefully) FAR more money to be garnered with a "custom" lable attached as opposed to a Plain Jane gun someone threw a bunch of aftermarket parts at to create something THEY wanted.
What surprises me is how a "custom" gun assembler (Sigh) now thinks that just because he/she added $200.00 worth of parts to a rack-grade $500.00 rifle someone mystically improves the gun to the tune $1,000.00 or MORE!
Cheese and RICE!
What YOU built is what YOU wanted but that Fiiiiine example of a Shootin' Iron is NOTHING but a collection of parts, so get over it and realize you may not get back so much as you put into it.
Given today's market, you'd be better off listing the gun (with a modest [!!] markup) and the parts for separately in the hopes someone will want the basic platform and maybe the accessories.
Guns are difficult to come by right now so higher prices can be expected to be paid but NOT some of the astronomical prices being posted.
ammo is the same deal.
It cannot (almost) be had for nearly ANY price, either, and the manufacturers have acknowledged it so the best WE, as shooters and reloaders, best buckle up and hold on because it isn't going to get better any time soon.
I hope to the Good Man Upstairs everyone remembers current events and eventually acquires modest stockpiles of desired ammunition and/or components to ward off the evil spirits the NEXT time it happens.
Because, mark my words, it WILL happen again!
And that doesn't even take into account what may happen given the current administration and their stated claims to cut the legs out from under the 2nd Amendment and those "horrible Black Guns" made only to kill so many innocent people. SMDH

 

[nikeandros]

if you bought a bunch of AR parts off the internet and assembled it, technically it is custom. it's not a factory M&P15 that all look the same. but yeah, i get where your coming from. i used to frequent a truck forum back in the day and people would describe them adding a k&n air filter as a "custom intake".

CUSTOM INTAKE?? CORRECT THEM!!! IS A CUSTOM EXHAUST!!!! LOL

 

[johngibbs222]

My take on it is you assemble parts yourself it's DIY if you have it assembled by a guy who has a reputation to maintain it might be worthy of the title "custom" there again it might not.
Unless, after assembly, they can be shown to be tested in accordance with saami guidelines I'd call them IEDs.

 

[Huggy]

I think "build" and "assembled" is really just a game of semantics. Are you an underappreciated custom furniture builder? No because you've bought a kit of pre-designed parts and simply assembled it in your home. Did you "build" it? I think you could argue it either way but I would say no because someone else took the time to create and design every element for you, but you certainly assembled it ... but again, semantics. It also is not custom furniture because thousands of other people have the exact same kit that they built in their home.

If BCM designed AR-15 kits and sold them at a discount due to you completing the assembly, are you the builder or the assembler? However you want to argue it it certainly isn't a custom gun. If you do the research and design your rifle with hand picked parts out of hundreds of manufacturers and thousands of parts are you a builder or assembler? Semantics ... either way it's still a custom gun in my mind.

Seems to me it is more of an "Ikea" gun.
You know; it came as a set of components in a box and you "assembled" it.
Because you "assembled" it out of order per the instruction manual, does that make it a "Custom" shelf or just an "Ikea" shelf.
Potato, Potahto.
Exactly.
Semantics.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

Seems to me it is more of an "Ikea" gun.
You know; it came as a set of components in a box and you "assembled" it.
Because you "assembled" it out of order per the instruction manual, does that make it a "Custom" shelf or just an "Ikea" shelf.
Potato, Potahto.
Exactly.
Semantics.

This gets back to my example about the aero precision rifle..

They sell a complete rifle, but you can also buy every single part of that rifle individually and assemble it yourself, so does that make it something else? If you sell it and aero made it, you get a warranty and a customer service department. If an individual assembled it, it comes with nothing.

If you use all of the same parts but change the barrel and trigger, now it's something else? Now it meets some folk's definition of custom. A whole lot of muddy water

 

[Mike Matteson]

I see a lot of aftermarket parts being sold across the counter. Now I know that several people can put together a custom built rifle for you. Custom is something that you are having built to what you want, and not what somebody else wants. I don't sell them either. They are for me or my boys. I wouldn't really call them custom either. A lot of my rifles are on Mauser 98 actions, because of the lock on the bolt. It' s may not be the best action, but it works just fine for me and what I want. It's something that you can't get across the counter, from Remington or Winchester and others. Do I up grade my rifles yes. I will generally replace the barrels into something I want. Heaver, longer, and now a muzzle brake if needed. With twist rate going faster, does require a barrel change if going that way. I now changing my process in getting rifles built for me. My rifles now will be using Rem 700 actions, TriggerTect triggers, Reamers built to my spects, Action trued, Specially dies. Then you get into reloading equipment. That another Story. So the moral of the story is, YOU DETERMINE WHAT YOU WANT, AND HAVE IT BUILT. Now some people have the skills to built their own, and my hat off to them. Now I am having a custom rifle being built, that's a wildcat. The only item that isn't is a 700 Rem Action. The balances are aftermarket items. 2-Bartlein Barrels Metal Grade, 400MODBB 1-7 Twist rate 30" Heavy Palma, Whidden for Dies, TriggerTech a for trigger, a reamer from Or. A 3.5 x 15 x 50 Nightforce Scope to top it off. All for 6mm-280AI wildcat rifle. It will also be set up for a muzzle brake if I so need. The second barrel is being set aside. The reason for such a long barrel is I can always cut it down, or get a different reamer for it. All necks will have to be cut to chamber the cases. No factory neck will work. Now I would say that petty much a custom rifle, and it' on my call.

 

[Deleted member 115360]

I see a lot of aftermarket parts being sold across the counter. Now I know that several people can put together a custom built rifle for you. Custom is something that you are having built to what you want, and not what somebody else wants. I don't sell them either. They are for me or my boys. I wouldn't really call them custom either. A lot of my rifles are on Mauser 98 actions, because of the lock on the bolt. It' s may not be the best action, but it works just fine for me and what I want. It's something that you can't get across the counter, from Remington or Winchester and others. Do I up grade my rifles yes. I will generally replace the barrels into something I want. Heaver, longer, and now a muzzle brake if needed. With twist rate going faster, does require a barrel change if going that way. I now changing my process in getting rifles built for me. My rifles now will be using Rem 700 actions, TriggerTect triggers, Reamers built to my spects, Action trued, Specially dies. Then you get into reloading equipment. That another Story. So the moral of the story is, YOU DETERMINE WHAT YOU WANT, AND HAVE IT BUILT. Now some people have the skills to built their own, and my hat off to them. Now I am having a custom rifle being built, that's a wildcat. The only item that isn't is a 700 Rem Action. The balances are aftermarket items. 2-Bartlein Barrels Metal Grade, 400MODBB 1-7 Twist rate 30" Heavy Palma, Whidden for Dies, TriggerTech a for trigger, a reamer from Or. A 3.5 x 15 x 50 Nightforce Scope to top it off. All for 6mm-280AI wildcat rifle. It will also be set up for a muzzle brake if I so need. The second barrel is being set aside. The reason for such a long barrel is I can always cut it down, or get a different reamer for it. All necks will have to be cut to chamber the cases. No factory neck will work. Now I would say that petty much a custom rifle, and it' on my call.

I concur with your definition. I think that level of customization leaves little doubt. Nothing but the action exists that someone can purchase over the counter, and even that has been modified and improved. By the way, that sounds like a great setup..

 

[Coyote01]

I'd like to know if the rest of you roll your eyes at all of the "custom" guns on the auction sites, as well as the classified ads on forums like this one.

If you bought a bunch of readily available AR parts and threw them together in your basement, I might buy them, but if you call it "custom" and attempt to market it as a custom rifle, not only will I refuse to even think about buying it, but I will make assumptions about your character, your lineage, and I will assume that you beat puppies to death with bags of kittens.

I've seen instances where guys have rattle canned a stock in some poor attempt to create a camouflage pattern, and they call it "custom". Buy a $300 Bell and Carlson stock, change out two action screws, and now they think it is "custom", and it drives me nuts.. Is it just me?

I agree. Small changes are not custom but you apparently can market these firearms better if you include the word custom LOL.

 

[JMW67]

a customized rifle does not make it a custom rifle is what I have gathered from reading through this

 

[Mike Matteson]

I concur with your definition. I think that level of customization leaves little doubt. Nothing but the action exists that someone can purchase over the counter, and even that has been modified and improved. By the way, that sounds like a great setup..

We will see. I have 11 pages of notes, and that growing. I will post it after I get it done, and start shooting it. My reloading gear is being upgraded too. Long Range Shooting has really open my eye's up. A great place to be with. A lot of info that being shared, and I take it into account. Learned a bunch. I kind of gotten behind, because of bow hunting for about 18 years.