MT Elk Regulations Should Change!

[Troutslayer2]

Yep pretty sure your best bet is to succeed from the union!

Ok. Where do we sign?

 

[L.Sherm]

. Non resident hunters probably pay 10X the amount for tags

So is that whats suppose to drive sound management? Money?
Its always the arguement with NR, who pays the property taxs and state income taxs which go up seems every other year especially property taxs its not NR unless you have a second home here.
I'll gladly pay NR license and tag fees if I dont have to pay property or state income taxs.

 

[L.Sherm]

Anyway, long winded way to say that yes hunting pressure sucks but I don't think blaming non-res is the answer.

When is the cut-off look at numbers from 15 years ago to now.
Should residents have to suffer the consequences? Hell Even Nevada residents have to draw is that what you want for Montana?
You can't have it both ways, something has to give or there isn't going to be anything for anybody to hunt.

 

[MOelkman]

So is that whats suppose to drive sound management? Money?
Its always the arguement with NR, who pays the property taxs and state income taxs which go up seems every other year especially property taxs its not NR unless you have a second home here.
I'll gladly pay NR license and tag fees if I dont have to pay property or state income taxs.

I cannot agree with everything you write, but you are correct once or twice. It has become a money game. MT residents are 100% responsible for what kind of FWP you have. It's going to take organization and money to apply the pressure. Lock out the NR if you want, but effecting change can come with unity. Lose the Us vs Them attitude. We're all hunters/shooters.

 

[L.Sherm]

Lock out the NR if you want

Did I say lock out the NR. NO I DIDNT
but something has to change and whatever it is NR should have to get seasons or weapon choices first cut.
The days of hunting our deer and elk for 11-12 weeks between archery and rifle has to come to an end.
Also the very generous B tags for NR has to be cut back.
There is I believe 21,500 licenses and A deer and elk tags give or take to NR, and Montana sells 80,000+ NR license totals from deer and elk that is ridiculous, wonder why are numbers are in the tank
Its not rocket science.
There was 66,600 in 2021 and I know I read it was 80,000+ in 2022

 

[Prairie Sasquatch]

In ND we have a draw for every rifle big game tag no matter if you are resident or non resident. Our rifle deer season is 16.5 days long. I don't draw buck tags every year and sometimes you don't even get a doe tag. However the hunting is generally really good if you do draw a tag even on the public land.

 

[L.Sherm]

Oregon is another state i know atleast on the Eastside thst residents have to draw been that way since the early 90's i know.
My nephew is a Oregon game biologist who comes and hunts with me along with his wife when they draw a NR license, he can't believe how montana issues so many tags and licenses to NR even the length of our seasons both for archery and rifle even though he is a NR

 

[Muddyboots]

Very interesting presentation from MT FWP. Me? Look at the slides on total revenue from sales. Are they managing wildlife as a business or for MT wildlife? I am a NR but this bothers me a lot. I am seeing same here in MI DNR relative to Lake Michigan, Lake Superior and Lake Huron. Latest is to allow commercial net fishing in Lake Michigan including indiscriminate killing of game fish with gill nets which were banned in 70's for that reason. Wildlife departments are no longer driven by protecting, fostering and sustaining all wildlife species. It's become a political hide the ball under walnut shell game.

https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/aboutfwp/legislature/2023/hunting-license-trends-in-montana.pdf

 

[Prairie Sasquatch]

I'll give my thought process after I went on the MT archery hunt last September.

"Wow. I hunted as hard as I ever have and basically had no opportunity to kill an elk after 6 days of hunting. I just blew at least $1000 on tag fees and points to get this tag. Not to mention the vacation. Travel etc etc. If I ever do this again I'm going to pay for access."

I've hunted different states for big game and killed animals on public and private and I don't feel bad if I don't get an animal but when I realistically can't even get access to hunt them that's a different deal. I don't want it to be easy but approaching impossible isn't good either.

In the future if I pay for private access I'm actually making the overall problem worse for everyone else. The cost just goes up and up and more land gets tied up.

I can afford to pay for access fees but I don't like doing it because I used to be a young guy who could barely afford to hunt. I don't want to discourage young people from hunting because it's so cost prohibitive. I don't see that scenario playing out very well for the future of hunting.

It's a real conundrum. I'd rather hunt less and have a better experience but that's just me.

 

[L.Sherm]

Here is som statistics to back up what I'm talking about, unit 103 is in N.W montana were I have hunted alot. In 2005 there was a total of 142 elk killed per 2255 hunters, 2022- 114 total elk for 2737 hunters so literally 20% more people for 20% less elk.
I know wolves have made an impact but so have alot more hunters, I bet if you looked at the statistics it will be this way if not state wide then just about everywhere.

 

[birddog 68]

So is that whats suppose to drive sound management? Money?
Its always the arguement with NR, who pays the property taxs and state income taxs which go up seems every other year especially property taxs its not NR unless you have a second home here.
I'll gladly pay NR license and tag fees if I dont have to pay property or state income taxs.

I've never purchased a NR Montana hunting license. I was just stating that NR pay approximately 10X the amount as a resident and they love the $$. No way they are going to reduce the amount of NR tags.
They should definitely have separate weapons seasons and possibly split seasons with NR only able to draw one per year.
As far as your taxes, you are screwed with all the libs moving to Montana taxes will keep going up.

 

[L.Sherm]

Like I said earlier NR always throw in the WE PAY 10X more well ill be glad to pay a NR fee and pay no property or state income tax, ill come out smelling like a Rose.
You are correct I am screwed as far as taxs go.

 

[MT257]

Like I said earlier NR always throw in the WE PAY 10X more well ill be glad to pay a NR fee and pay no property or state income tax, ill come out smelling like a Rose.
You are correct I am screwed as far as taxs go.

I think first step is increasing the resident license to help offset the % of license dollars R v Nr. No where else in the country sells a $20 elk tag Same could be said for deer. It's not the 50s any more. In my opinion if we get a higher percentage of that funding from residents they may cater more to the residents wants.

 

[L.Sherm]

Money shouldn't be the issue in sound management. That's a separate issue or it should be. Fix the management issue then talk money otherwise it will never get fixed.
Its like I always say you do the same thing over and over but expect a different result.