MT Elk Regulations Should Change!

[CF96]

If you go outta state to just hunt for " meat" you might as well just stay home and buy good beef its a helluva lot cheaper.

That sure is a mouthful right there

 

[MOelkman]

Sounds to me like there a lot of different issues at play.

Pushing more NR to Outfitter-only hunts only raises the cost of hunting for Residents. Tag sales are matches by Pittman funds, be thankful NR pay what they do so the Resident share of the matching funds is less.

If you really want to increase access to hunting it is ALL about the money. Raise Resident tag prices to NR levels. This would increase PR matched funds and allow the increased funds to be used to pay land owners for access for public use instead of Outfitters paying for the access. The landowners deserve to be compensated for their property use. If you don't want Outfitters locking up all the good private land, give the State the funds to be a Public Outfitter.

If NR hunters are poor quality, raise the quality, not the price. Require a Montana NR hunting education to address private land etiquette, etc.

If NR are not allowed to visit Montana to hunt and hunting is only available for Residents, does anyone believe this will NOT encourage more immigration to Montana, thus increasing housing prices, etc?

Cost of living and hunting are separate but connected issues. Housing/taxes can be separately addressed from hunting regulations. Do not allow non-residents to own land, only allow long term leases like Switzerland does. Vote on the local level to reduce or eliminate big city quality of life expenses that liberal immigrants love to spend tax dollars on. Street lights - not needed, vote no. Giant public schools with sports complexes befitting Big 10 Universities - vote no. Use your local government to arm the local businesses and residents against cross border undercutting. Switzerland greatly taxes French wine and cheese to protect local produces. What is Montana government doing to protect Montana way of life? Unfortunately it sounds like you are getting a taste of life in the eastern half but fortunately have the precedent and time to correct it. Zoning can fix much of this. Require poor infrastructure. Want to build a new neighborhood of mansions and want road improvements... to bad, zoned for gravel roads to avoid fancy cars.

As for the western hunting, there are fewer and fewer hunter and we DO need more to combat the Liberal Urbanites. The hunter crowding in my opinion is from more hunters are hunting more and more states and fewer are staying local. Want better odds? Why not 1st in, last up? Got an Elk tag last year, drop to the back of the line this year.

Rational & well thought out. I understand the emotions of OP and others from MT. To be successful we need to be together on solutions. Doubtful everyone gets everything they want. We have much in common with each other - let's act like it.

 

[CF96]

Got the right. I feel that the Giz should be spread around. Colo, Calif, Org, Washington. Utah could be included. I feel share the wealth. Pur them in the Sierra's from San Diego to Canada border.

Oh they are coming, trust me. Libs get giddy talking about getting them in here and no one will stop it.

 

[CF96]

You haven't seen anything yet, wait untill the wolves and G- bears expand alot

They are. That's why all the elk live in our ag fields and others year around. Not much left in the high country anymore.

 

[L.Sherm]

Tag sales are matches by Pittman funds, be thankful NR pay what they do so the Resident share of the matching funds is less.

You wrong on that, only 50% are and 20% of that 50% has to be used on the parks here in Montana.
And once again money is brought up, how about some reasonable ideas on how to better the elk and deer herds instead of bringing money or land issues into the discussion. It obviously broke money or no money keep dumping money and still same thing, do the same thing but expect a different result.

 

[CF96]

You wrong on that, only 50% are and 20% of that 50% has to be used on the parks here in Montana.
And once again money is brought up, how about some reasonable ideas on how to better the elk and deer herds instead of bringing money or land issues into the discussion. It obviously broke money or no money keep dumping money and still same thing, do the same thing but expect a different result.

Like you keep saying, do like Nevada and Utah. Lessen tags and seasons for all and manage for quality not quantity. But don't expect to hunt as often. I agree, more money doesn't fix anything other than giving a slush fund to the state.

 

[L.Sherm]

Like you keep saying, do like Nevada and Utah. Lessen tags and seasons for all and manage for quality not quantity. But don't expect to hunt as often. I agree, more money doesn't fix anything other than giving a slush fund to the state.

I'm all for it, much rather have a quality and quantity experience than what is now.
Have no idea what Utah does, never hunted there.
You dont have to manage for just quality ive seen both in Nevada, N.M, and Wyoming it doesn't have to be either or

 

[CF96]

I'm all for it, much rather have a quality and quantity experience than what is now.
Have no idea what Utah does, never hunted there.
You dont have to manage for just quality ive seen both in Nevada, N.M, and Wyoming it doesn't have to be either or

Yes there is room for both if done properly

 

[L.Sherm]

For me it doesn't really matter, for my grandson its everything. He was born and raised here and im not gonna feel a bit sorry if NR tags have to be cut so he can hunt every year, ill even give mine up so that can happen.
Alot dont look at it that way, its how much money I spent in another state to hunt.
Trust me ive spent plenty in other states and if that has to happen for me as a NR so a younger generation can hunt in there resident state then so be it.
Its not all about you or me.

 

[MOelkman]

For me it doesn't really matter, for my grandson its everything. He was born and raised here and im not gonna feel a bit sorry if NR tags have to be cut so he can hunt every year, ill even give mine up so that can happen.
Alot dont look at it that way, its how much money I spent in another state to hunt.
Trust me ive spent plenty in other states and if that has to happen for me as a NR so a younger generation can hunt in there resident state then so be it.
Its not all about you or me.

Correct. It needs to be about the health of the game population - quantity & quality. Everything else flows from that. Without a huntable population, everything else is a moot issue. And, your grandchildren may not get to hunt as much as they want. Which will be better than not hunting at all...

 

[Philward]

It will take 10 years of studies to calculate how many animals are killed by natural predators, disease, weather, road kill, etc. Then allot how many can be killed by humans for sport, and issue as many tags as needed to harvest that many animals based on average success rate.

Then they will need to manage how often hunters can get a tag or even apply too get one. Hopefully getting accurate harvest reports. Plus calculate how many animals are lost to illegal harvest.

Then when the herd starts to recover the wolves and cougars will have more food and will multiply and consume more animals. And still no effective control strategy for the wild predators.

 

[Outdrmn]

Doesn't seem like there's a concern for improving quantity and quality for hunting.

There are new proposals to bring back grizzly bears in the North Cascades

Federal plans to reintroduce the bears in Washington derailed during the Trump years. A grizzly hasn't been seen in the region since the 1990s.

BY: BILL LUCIA - SEPTEMBER 28, 2023 7:28 PM

 

[mdmiller]

I'll look closer. Perhaps a more pronounced muzzle loading season is what I'm looking for. For example, CO has a draw only muzzle loader season during the elk rut. That seems like a cool hunt to me.

I've killed all my Elk in Colorado with muzzle loader. 2 6x6 and 5 cows in the last 23 years. To many points to draw a Bull tag now, so I usually get a cow NR tag every 2 -3 years now.
Still fun but getting older!!

 

[Horse1]

WY has already taken action regarding tag numbers as a reaction to the tough winter of 22/23. MT, CO, and ID will continue to sell every tag they offer as WY point-creep escalates, and some folks just buy WY points waiting for the herd numbers to rebuild and hope that quality returns. The folks who aren't going to WY will flow to anywhere there's opportunity for tags. It's going to take a decade or maybe a bit more for the WY tag reductions to work themselves through the rest of the big game opportunities in the Western states.