Motivation for ML hunting restrictions

[LRNut]

For the conscientious hunter, a riflescope provides a better sight picture for a more accurate shot. It doesn't extend the range of a firearm. Older folks aren't the only ones that may have trouble shooting iron sights. But "throwing lead" at an animal is not what we should be teaching. Marksmanship is vital to game conservation. Why limit one's ability to make a more accurate shot? The scope does not extend one's range!

A scope absolutely extends your range. I used a ML last year that had a holdover reticle out to 275 yards. I took a shot at my 910 yard gong this morning - dialed up 18.25 MOA and used my MOAR reticle to hold 1 MOA for wind/spin. How do you do that with open sights?

 

[pointy sticks]

For the conscientious hunter, a riflescope provides a better sight picture for a more accurate shot. It doesn't extend the range of a firearm. Older folks aren't the only ones that may have trouble shooting iron sights. But "throwing lead" at an animal is not what we should be teaching. Marksmanship is vital to game conservation. Why limit one's ability to make a more accurate shot? The scope does not extend one's range!

If you believe a rifle scope dose not allow you to shoot farther we can't really have a discussion. It allows you to squeeze every last bit of range out of your weapon where with iron sights your eye may limit you. Remember the point of muzzle loader seasons the weapon is supposed to be primitive.

 

[blvette75]

This is another example of California types of politics in action and agenda. Bottom line you have to allow for the appropriate number of successful hunters that the regions or zones can accommodate for a healthy herd. If the number of un-successful hunters results in the herd over-populating New Mexico then has shot themselves in the foot. Most hunters know the limitations of their hunting methods and will not take unreasonable shots, it shouldn't be an issue. But to me it is just a silly requirement for an older guy, with older eyes it would eliminate me from muzzle loading hunting. As I want to be able to take the best shot for success with the best technology available for a successful hunt.

In Colorado, we have been overburdened with new gun control measures like a flood. These type of issues, mostly increases in fees and other issues. I have been fortunate enough to be able to communicate directly with the sponsor of some hunting changes they wanted to legislate and was able to at least get my points addressed in most cases they backed off, in other cases no success. But we are in a position of having to vote and back the politicians that will uphold our rights to hunt and participate in other shooting sports.

 

[del2les]

My "personal" preference is to keep the sport what it was meant to be, primitive. I have never used a scope on any of my ML's, but if someone wished to and state regs allowed, I would not argue against them.

Decades ago, we held ML matches at our club, and those targets ranged from 50-200yds. We learned rather quickly how effective a 50cal ML could be with a little practice, right bullet, and vernier sights. Some guys would replace their back barrel sights with something a little more adjustable and still do fairly well on the 200yd targets.

Just for fun and to see what could be done, a friend and I played with the simple leaf adjustment on a couple of our rifles, and once we figured out elevation adjustments, we were consistently hitting gallon milk jugs at 200yds with hand cast TC Maxiballs.

Remember, a lot of bison were killed at varying distances with ML's back in the day.

 

[Rosebud]

I'm Alabama its still called primitive weapons season in most areas. You can use any muzzle loader in general rifle season. But in state management areas it's primitive weapons. I fully endorse this. Your allowed to hunt special areas and dates by using traditional muzzle loader, With iron sights.

 

[pointy sticks]

But to me it is just a silly requirement for an older guy, with older eyes it would eliminate me from muzzle loading hunting. As I want to be able to take the best shot for success with the best technology available for a successful hunt.

That is a whole other discussion. You can't change the rules for everyone to be inclusive to a person with a disability.

 

[JAYgs8163]

The reason for the change is the increase success ratio during the ML seasons. The effective range has increased substantially with the present day inline ML. I killed a deer last year with my CVA Accura 45 cal at 307 yards. Scoped with a 2-10 Trijicon. I'd have never taken that shot without a scope. I can consistently shoot and hit a 10" kill zone at 450 yards. I also upgraded the ignition system on mine allowing me to run Large Rifle primers effectively with BH209 at 2409 muzzle velocity from a 26" barrel. So again the effective range of present day inline ML's is much greater and gives a better success ratio. Something has to give, less tags, limit the gear/equipment….. if we take more from the herd then we need to make a change somewhere or risk the health of the herd. We could issue less rifle tags, less archery tags, what's the answer?

 

[6.5x300 WBY]

What is a bolt doing on a muzzleloader? Not legal in my state.

You Seriously don't understand ??

 

[6.5x300 WBY]

Sure. A crossbow compared to a compound bow is a huge difference. I didn't say no more in-line MLs. Recurve and long bows are to archery what flintlocks are to muzzleloading. I can't put a scope on or shoulder my compound bow. If they said no more compounds, I'd go get a good recurve and start shooting it to become effective. Sorry, but any "archery season" that allows crossbows for non-disabled people isn't an archery season. Tell me that a compound is easier to shoot than a crossbow, I'd love to hear that argument.

Not gonna say that at all. Are you gonna say that your compound bow is as easy to shoot as a recurve or long bow? If so I'd love to hear that argument lol.

Any " archery season " that includes compound bows isn't a real archery season. Goes both ways

 

[del2les]

I understand what you are saying, but their are options that will keep you in the game. Many of us older shooters have various issues with certain iron sights, but there are vernier sights with adjustable diopters that greatly improve your eye focus, and there are various lens inserts for vernier type sights that can be used. Also, there are varied lens attachments one can attach to their eye or shooting glasses.

I've seen many of these in use on the rifle/target ranges through the years, and back in the day, Champions CHoice and other shooting comp suppliers carried these.

But to me it is just a silly requirement for an older guy, with older eyes it would eliminate me from muzzle loading hunting. As I want to be able to take the best shot for success with the best technology available for a successful hunt.

 

[6.5x300 WBY]

Well, seems pretty easy to me too: if you did that, you would be nothing but a poacher.

Just pointing out that you can't control everything for what people do and the Game commission won't be able to enforce everything. I stated that you can restrict powder types or bullet types etc and reduce the range capability of a weapon. Then someone said you can't or won't be able to enforce that when your muzzleloader is loaded. You can't prevent everything. That's all. And I agree with you on that

 

[chav0_12]

Not gonna say that at all. Are you gonna say that your compound bow is as easy to shoot as a recurve or long bow? If so I'd love to hear that argument lol.

Any " archery season " that includes compound bows isn't a real archery season. Goes both ways

I'd never say my compound is harder to shoot than trad archery gear. Compound bows are still archery though, a crossbow with a stock and scope, I can't say that's archery. A primitive weapons hunt that includes inline MLs isn't really primitive then is it? I'd say the same about a compound bow, there's nothing primitive about those, but they're legal. Now, scopes on ML are becoming illegal, I guess I won't be 1) hunting that season with a scoped muzzle loader, 2) putting a scope on my muzzle loader, 3) complaining about why I can't put a scope on my muzzle loader.

@JAYgs8163 is right. It's either fewer tags or limits to equipment. Take your pick. I'm pretty sure the game commissions across the west have heard enough about how hard it is to get a tag, so they left the number of tags the same and limited the equipment.

 

[del2les]

Some of you may like these websites:

The Muzzleloading Forum

Muzzleloading Forum discussion community & muzzleloading/reenactors for sale classifieds. Muzzle loading forums for reenactors, mountain men, French & Indian War, Civil War reenactors.

www.muzzleloadingforum.com

Long Range Muzzle Loading

Long Range Muzzle Loading: Historical Background & Shooting Today

www.researchpress.co.uk

Long range vernier sight?

Hello Guys: Newby here, with question concerning a long range vernier sight. I would like to know if anyone has mounted one, and if so, what was the range extension gained by it’s use. I have a T/C Hawken, 50 cal. that I shoot fairly well (with T/C Peep Sight) out to 150 yds. However, I...

www.muzzleloadingforum.com

 

[Leaf Litter]

Great to see.

Muzzleloading isn't and shouldn't be a long range sport. It's intended to be a primitive intermediary between archery and modern rifles, not an excuse to spend $5k on a "Muzzleloader" that shoots medium caliber bullets in front of smokeless powder.

Buy a rifle tag if you need a scope that badly.