More Berger 300 Hybrid Gen 2 testing

[Fiftydriver]

Jmden,

No I have not been around much, humpin it trying to get projects out the door to very patient customers!!!

Shawn,

Can not wait to hear your results!!!

 

[SBruce]

What did you guys consider to be the velocity limit of the Gen I version? Do you think 2950-3000 is too fast?

I remember reading somewhere that they couldn't be pushed faster than X speed without deformation problems, but I dont recall what that speed was. I've got 400 of them I intend on shooting some fairly soon.

Sorry if this has already been covered, but this search function doesn't seem to work very well for me sometimes.

Thanks,

 

[Shawn Carlock]

We saw a definate velocity / twist threshold that could not be passed. Some have successfully shot them at your speeds and some not. All I can say is try them and see. Sorry I'm not more helpfull on this.

 

[B23]

Just recieved a VERY unexpected package in the mail from Berger today.

Mmmmm, very nice looking.

 

[Fiftydriver]

In my "FRESH" 338 Allen Xpress rifles, my customers and I have been driving the Gen1 bullets to 3000 fps and even slightly more using Lilja 1-10 twist barrels with fine accuracy.

That said, in my personal old 338 Allen Xpress which has several hundred rounds down the barrel, anything much over 2800 fps showed dramatic accuracy drop off.

My opinion was that the Gen 1 bullets were right on the ragged edge for integrity and with the barrels that were a bit long in the tooth, with a bit more bore friction from heat cracking and such, they simply were not holding up.

 

[SBruce]

In my "FRESH" 338 Allen Xpress rifles, my customers and I have been driving the Gen1 bullets to 3000 fps and even slightly more using Lilja 1-10 twist barrels with fine accuracy.

That said, in my personal old 338 Allen Xpress which has several hundred rounds down the barrel, anything much over 2800 fps showed dramatic accuracy drop off.

My opinion was that the Gen 1 bullets were right on the ragged edge for integrity and with the barrels that were a bit long in the tooth, with a bit more bore friction from heat cracking and such, they simply were not holding up.

How about the used Raptor LRSS 338 AX that I bought from you Kirby (this is the one I am going to shoot the Gen I bullets in)? Is it a 10 twist, or is it the personal one you are referring to above? I don't recall the velocity you mentioned you were shooting in that particular gun.

 

[Fiftydriver]

It was that rifle but it was the first barrel before the one you have.

 

[SBruce]

Would I be correct in assuming the new barrel has a 10 twist? Do you recall if you had ever tried the Gen I's at 2900-3000 in this newer barrel?

 

[jmden]

Shawn,

How consistent have the Gen II 300g Hybrid Bergers been in the bearing surface measurement and weight departments...?

Jon

 

[Shawn Carlock]

Here is the link to the first post I put up on the 300 gr Gen 2 bullet, it has all of the specs on it and yes the measurements are very consistent.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/berger-300-gr-hybrid-gen-2-a-70986/

 

[RDM416]

What did you guys consider to be the velocity limit of the Gen I version? Do you think 2950-3000 is too fast?

I remember reading somewhere that they couldn't be pushed faster than X speed without deformation problems, but I dont recall what that speed was. I've got 400 of them I intend on shooting some fairly soon.

Sorry if this has already been covered, but this search function doesn't seem to work very well for me sometimes.

Thanks,

SBruce,

I have had very good results shooting the Bergers out of one of my Khans' at 2875fps. Made some very long kills on antelope last fall with them. I loaded them intentionally to keep them under 2900fps based on what I was hearing on this site. I liked them so well I started to experiment with them out of my other Khan which has a longer barrel to see what kind of velocity I could work them up to.

Last week I was shooting some and average velocity was running about 3080fps. Groups were good at 100 but not impressive (1/2 to 3/4 moa). I moved out to 300 and shot 1, 3 shot group that was about 1", then shot a second group, 1st and second shot were about 1 1/2" apart, the third shot went 9" left and 6" high. That was the first shot with the Bergers that something obviously went wrong with the bullet. I know I did not pull the shot (not THAT far anyway) and the brass was perfect so it had to be the bullet. I only had about 6 more loaded so I went home pulled the bullets and concluded that 3080fps is too fast for Gen 1s.

Like you, I have several hundred in stock. I'm still deciding if I am going to return them to Berger or just shoot them with the reduced load. From what Shawn and Kirby are saying it looks like the Gen IIs are the real deal though.

 

[jmden]

Here is the link to the first post I put up on the 300 gr Gen 2 bullet, it has all of the specs on it and yes the measurements are very consistent.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/berger-300-gr-hybrid-gen-2-a-70986/

Thanks, Shawn. I did a search and did not find that post.

The precision of the Bergers certainly intrigues me. I've been able to find a load faster and shoot with more consistency with the Berger 210's than the SMK 240's in a RUM, so am looking forward to trying these, but still have a couple of hundred 300 SMK's to get through first...but that setup shoots 1/4 MOA when I do my part, so I can't complain too much. With the Berger 210's and sorting by BS and weight--I quit sorting after getting through so many with variations that were so small, it wouldn't matter in real world application. Now I just shoot 'em. My last 3 shot group at 100 was 1/4" and that was after making a 1/4MOA up and 1/4 MOA to the L scope adjustment midway through the group. They just shoot.

 

[Fiftydriver]

SBruce,

Yes your barrel has a 1-10 twist and yes it shot very well with the Gen 1 bergers I have here.

 

[Fiftydriver]

RDM416.

You saw what is typical with any bullet that is on the edge. If the barrel is cool, they generally will shoot very well. If the barrel is warm at all, you will start to see problems if you push velocity to hard.

In my testing of these bullets in my 338 Allen Magnum, I intentionally pushed the Gen 2 bullets to TRY to make them fail. Got the barrel very hot, kept shooting and pushing them to well over 3300 fps. Not one failed.

Accuracy and consistancy was very good thoughout that test.

Now, am I saying that a barrel that has 800 rounds down the bore and some noticable heat cracking will do the same thing with these bullets, even the Gen 2s, can not say that for sure YET but working on it!!!

So far so good.

From testing the Gen 1 bullets. I would have bullet failure from shear velocity alone so this is a HUGE step in the right direction.

The good news is that if you drop back down to 2900 fps, you will likely get very good results from the Gen 1 bullets. In all honesty, that is not much difference when your talking long range hunting, you know how well they perform at long range at sub 2900 fps velocity levels so hard to complain. Load them to that level to use up the Gen 1 bullets and then by that time the Gen 2 should be readily available and then you can hit the throttle harder!!! Maybe get a new barrel as well!!!