MOA at 400 but can't get on target at 650?

[DJ Fergus]

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Hey guys, so I have browning stainless stalker in 300 WSM topped with a Leupold VX-5hd and shooting 180 grain trophy grade accubonds. I have a 100 yard zero and chornographed the speed im shooting. Im also using a gunwerks br2500 to get my elevation dials, and it worked perfect out to 400 or so yards where it was still holding MOA.

The issue is when I tried to take it out to 650, I spray painted a large rock about 3 feet by 3 feet orange and set up on it, made my dial and took aim slowly squeezing the trigger, each time I shot id raise my head to see a puff of smoke drifting in the wind near the rock thinking I made a hit..

Well after about 10 rounds I drove to my target to see I didn't make contact a single time! I hit ALL around it tho but could not even touch a 3ft by 3 ft target..

I also had another shooter with me who was also making Moa size hits at 400 yards with the rifle and they too had the same results as me at the 650 range..

Does this sound like a shooter issue or is it possible for the rifle to open it groups up that big over an extra 250 yards?

Thanks for any input.

Tommy

I load mostly target bullets, but I have saw regular hunting bullets shot from some of my rifles get really unstable out past 400. Would shoot good @ 400 then get wild. For the same token, I had a rifle that would shoot hunting bullets into a horrible group at 400 and actually settle down @ 500 yards. I sold that rifle. It was a 270wsm xbolt. I believe that in certain circumstances bullets can destabilize at certain distances even when you have adequate twist for the bullet. I have my opinions why this may happen, over deformation of bullet due to barrel condition, bullet construction itself way out of concentric balance, etc.... Probably to many what ifs to list. I don't spend alot of time trouble shooting like I used to. Now days I am pretty quick to move on.

 

[BW64]

Is it bedded?

BW

 

[73driver]

And possibility you were try to see your impact too much and lacking follow through.

Possibility

 

[25WSM]

I agree with new member Britney. If you don't adjust parallax properly face position behind the scope can move you a long way in every direction. You can't go by the numbers on the side of the scope. They are usually off a bit. Can't turn the knob to the clearest view either. You have to head Bob up down and side to side till that x-hair stays on the bull. I see it with my customers all the time. When I show them how to do it they immediately shoot better groups at all yardage. My 1000 yd heavy gun is a 300wsm and I shoot berger 210vld at 2900 and it only has a 12 twist on it. So I doubt it's instability. Did you try 400 again after you were unsuccessful at 640. Something may have broke after your 400 yard shots. Also try shooting with a cooled down barrel. It does 2 things. Some barrels are not stress relieved as good as others. Especially with factory barrels. A cool barrel is more normalized. The other killer of a hot barrel is the mirage that you have to see though to aim. Mirage will bend light making your target appear to you that it's right where your aiming. But it can be distorted by a large amount at longer ranges.
Good luck. Shep

 

[floyd kittrell]

More than likely a hot barrel I experienced same thing while checking my ballistics out to 600 , was doing it with our BR group as they shot a tournament and I stupidly got caught up in it and was not letting my barrel cool down . 5 1/2-5R Krieger lapped that shoots 165 TBT into 1/16" @ 100 went to 3" at 600 very frustrating but it was my own fault for rapid fire , I normally wait 20 mins between shots when testing and always require the first cold bore round to be in the group to be an acceptable hunting load . JMHO

 

[Jeremy338]

If you had a guy with you spotting at 650 and couldn't see hits you have magical disappearing Bullets. 650 yards is to close to not see a impact after 10 shots. 20 mph wind shooting down at a 45 degree angle you would still see a hit without proper compensation

 

[CVCOBRA1]

To the OP....have you gotten your Fat Wrench out yet? If not, do it and get back to us. Out

 

[clownbuster]

The rifle will not shoot sub-MOA one minute then not perform the next without introducing shooting error. All variables being equal, it will produce equal results if the shooter maintains form. 500 and in, you can get away with alot of inconsistencies. 600 and out, they immediately show up.
Once your scope mounting is quickly verified, clean your rifle, and either on your tv or handheld device, open YouTube, search for "Snipers Hide Recoil Management" and watch Frank Galli's videos on shoulder pocket, grip, fire-control, setting up behind the rifle, recoil management, all of it. Get on the living room floor and start practicing. Shooting at distance only does one thing: exaggerates poor form of an inexperienced and uneducated shooter.
Good luck!

 

[Window]

Didn't catch all the posts, but I'd see what the scope is doing. I have a target stand I built out of plywood cut at 3' x 6'. Put a white sheet of paper top to bottom. I use freezer paper. Draw a heavy black line top to bottom. When you set it up, use a level to make sure the line is plumb. First, put a bulls eye at the bottom. Then put a cross mark every 5" going up to 30". Assuming yer sighted in at 100 yards, set it up at 100 yds. Then shoot adjusting the scope to 5 MOA, 10 MOA, etc to 30 MOA. If the scope is on, you'll hit the cross mark at each marked MOA. If there's cant issues or the holes start going in different directions as you go up in MOA, you've got a scope issue. If they're spot on start looking at some of the stuff noted above. On a side note, I was shooting some Hammer bullets that I thought were gonna be the schitt. I was getting a consistent 7/8" - 1" group at 400 yards. At 700 yards they were spraying all over the paper. My Berger 230's meanwhile were still shooting 1/2 MOA groups at the same distances out of the same gun. The Hammers were destabilizing past 400. Got three boxes that I'm using as paper weights for the time being...

Just curious, what Hammers were you using and what the twist on your rifle? I've switched 6 rifles now to the Hammer Hunters and all have been very good at 800yds. I'll be putting to the test in a couple of weeks at 1000yds. I will admit that lad like to be able to shoot heavier bullets using the Hammers but all of my rifles have a 1:10 and heavier is not an option because of destabilization.

Stan

 

[Buster***]

while at the range use cleaning rod nylon brush hopps scrubb the hell out of barrel 25 times back and forth and then follow with snake with only few drops of oil of your choice on tail retry and see what happens after 10 shots repeat see if there is any improvement at all happy shooting.

 

[flylo]

If you don't use a scope level that would be my guess, you're canting the scope without knowing it.

 

[JemezDave]

Those accubonds have plastic tips no? I'd heard Hornady found out their plastic tips were burning up a while back, and they changed the tip composition. The friction of the air on the bullet in flight. Even if they are burning up I still don't think it would de-stabilize them or cause the random impact thing. Could be parallax, but then there was the post from the third guy with the same rifle that had the same issues at that range. You could try different parallax adjustments at the same range and see if groups tighten up, or try some different bullets to compare. I don't see it being mechanical though if you're good at 400

 

[misterc01]

Try to watch thru the scope until the round hits. Try to see it thru the scope. Pulling up to look at hits on /near target too early did the same to me. I stayed on the scope and my groups shrank almost like magic. There is also a world of difference moving from 400 on up.

 

[esshup]

I agree with what many have said already. 1) Let the gun barrel cool down. If you can't rest your hand on the barrel right in front of the scope, stop shooting, it's too hot. 2) Double check your shooting form. On my LR gun, I turn the scope down a bit for 600 yds and I can spot my own impacts thru the scope if I stay into the gun starting at 600 yds. With my LR practice gun (.308 Win) I can spot my own impacts thru the scope starting around 400 yds.

I was at the range with a buddy once and he didn't have data past 300 yds, and I had left my ballistic calculator at the house. We had to walk the bullet out to the 1K mark from 500 yds, I could figure the drop from 300 to 500 but after that I was lost. By shooting at every 50 yds and noting the bullet impacts, we got him on paper at 1K.

I will be interested in hearing how this weekend range session goes for you. One question, after you couldn't hit the rock at 647 yds, did you come back to 400 to check group size and POI?