Military Losing the Sniper War Against Russia?

[Deleted member 48126]

My nephew was a Marine sniper in 2005 and 2006 in Afganistan and Iraq the story's he told me didnt sound to glamour or what he had to do in sniper school.

Snipers don't. They are proud of what they do, but others around them glamorize it. Just emphasizing your point with my experience working with them.

 

[John Klingenberg]

You say over glamorized, I say under utilized. People do look at snipers mostly just as the source for long range rifle fire. But their secondary mission as eyes and ears is just as if not more important. I instill in training that the radio is their biggest weapon/asset. That CCA/CAS and indirect fire will inflict more damage than any rifle. Ignorance in utilization is the biggest problem. They are that unconventional force within a conventional force.

You're missing the point that there are a lot of other people that can call in fire support. The authorization to call in CAS or fire support isn't as readily available and a lot of commanders wont let just anyone call in those things without an officer on the ground. It's also a false narrative that snipers go wandering around hostile areas alone or with a spotter. That is an extremely rare occurrence today and usually relegated to spec ops who have a bigger resource pool to draw from.

 

[JustMe2]

Pro2A, Inside the article is a blue colored hyperlink to the Russian "Orsis T-5000 Tochnost rifle " talking about the 4600 yd shot. This second hyperlinked article says:

"But the T-5000 is really only beginning, even more powerful snipers are currently in the works. Lobaev Arms, claimed a world record with a Sumrak (Twilight) rifle, hitting a target from 3,720 yards away in 2015. Last month, the company topped this with a 4,600 yard shot. Although requiring detailed knowledge of the exact winds as well as a correction for the rotation of the Earth, these snipers will redefine the idea of "a safe distance" and become new masters of the battlefield."

You're welcome. I figured the guys would enjoy this article and have a lot of discussions about what it says in the article and in what is said in the many hyperlinks inside the main article.

Really not amazing why government decisions are outdated by the time they are implemented by Big Army and Big Navy. It really is because of lawyers and tax dollars. The lawyers and Congress want to make sure everyone has a fair chance to use our tax dollars, so Congress mandates a long competition process to see who the winner of the billion dollar contract (tax dollars) is. Then, almost 100 percent of the time, the loosing company's lawyers sue because they don't like the decision the military (government) made in the selection process which delays acquisition even longer and typically years more of court battles. The normal acquisition is therefore about 10-20 years because of this illusion of fairness to all competitors. That is also why the Spec Ops guys can get newer equipment than big army and big navy because the Spec Ops purchase is smaller and falls under different acquisition rules and is not as long.

 

[John Klingenberg]

My nephew was a Marine sniper in 2005 and 2006 in Afganistan and Iraq the story's he told me didnt sound to glamour or what he had to do in sniper school.

No disrespect intended. People outside of the actual use and experience of ground combat have no idea how modern warfare is. We dont do what we did any more, when it comes to ground pounding. Basics are the same, fire and maneuver, the rest is different. We occupy an asymmetrical battle field with tactics that range from kicking doors to dropping guided missiles pickled from 4000 miles away. The days of the lone wolf are only Hollywood.

 

[jdyoung]

Well to be fair, didn't Russia kinda invent the whole "sniping" concept from the start? And didn't the US learn most of what they know from the Russians and or Germans on the subject to begin with? Anyway, good for the Russians!

remingtonman_25_06 care to expand on that, when and where ?

 

[L.Sherm]

No disrespect intended. People outside of the actual use and experience of ground combat have no idea how modern warfare is. We dont do what we did any more, when it comes to ground pounding. Basics are the same, fire and maneuver, the rest is different. We occupy an asymmetrical battle field with tactics that range from kicking doors to dropping guided missiles pickled from 4000 miles away. The days of the lone wolf are only Hollywood.

I dont know when or if the lone wolf thing ended because him and his spotter were dropped out of a helicopter at night on top of a mtn because they got intel Bin Laden was using a pass. Intel said 3"-4" of snow they sank upto there arm pits when they jumped.
They were looking for some intel people when the got back he said good thing no Taliban were around they were sitting ducks for about 1.5 hrs while they dug themselves out.

 

[LRNut]

Been a long time since I wore a uniform, and never had a right shoulder patch, but I have tried to follow various DARPA projects focused on extending the range of the sniper.

There seems to be a lot of focus on the round, but as anyone who shoots at extended ranges knows, wind is the limitation. A rifle shot traveling over 3000 meters has a TOF long enough that even if you can measure the wind using LIDAR it can change enough during the TOF to cause a miss. I can only conclude that after a lot of effort, the US military has concluded that targets beyond 1800 yards are best taken out by guided munitions. Hell, even artillery can be put on a target kilometers away.

Does anyone know if the US military has any device to measure wind?

 

[L.Sherm]

In Iraq he did the 4 man sniper team, 2 shooters 2 spotters he said about 3 days were as long as they were out that's about all the water they could carry.
If you google " Why it's not a good idea to shoot at Marines - Funker 530" theres a video of them getting ambushed you can hear my nephew hollering telling the others were the guy is with the RPG and opening up with his saw.

 

[bbaley]

not to take away from modern "sniperism", but hasn't there been "snipers" as long as projectiles have been hurled at one another? you know, Robin Hood, that one guy that could shoot a gnats ***. to say Germans or Russians or whoever invented snipering seems rather silly point... maybe its sorta relevant to rifles...

 

[nt7332]

I bet the Russians are shooting 6.5 creedmoor is why they are so advanced! I mean it does all the work for u. They give our troops 300 normas, possibly 300 prc and still some 300 winnies rolling around in inventory. We are simply under gunned! How can we compete with the creed?

 

[Ol' Red]

I won't say snipers are not needed, but the battle usually goes to the side with the most artillery available.

 

[Ol' Red]

I also remember classes on the Russian SCUD, and comparing it to our own weapons. I was out of the military when dessert storm started, but that scud was not what it was perceived to be. I'm sure they would not try to B.S. us again. SGT in the 64th Ord Co.

 

[John Klingenberg]

not to take away from modern "sniperism", but hasn't there been "snipers" as long as projectiles have been hurled at one another? you know, Robin Hood, that one guy that could shoot a gnats ***. to say Germans or Russians or whoever invented snipering seems rather silly point... maybe its sorta relevant to rifles...

There's a story of Leonardo Da Vinci using a custom wheel lock shooting over the parapet during the siege of Florence out to 300 yards. There is also some evidence he had an optical sight installed. Google it. I couldn't figure out how to link it.

 

[John Klingenberg]

I dont know when or if the lone wolf thing ended because him and his spotter were dropped out of a helicopter at night on top of a mtn because they got intel Bin Laden was using a pass. Intel said 3"-4" of snow they sank upto there arm pits when they jumped.
They were looking for some intel people when the got back he said good thing no Taliban were around they were sitting ducks for about 1.5 hrs while they dug themselves out.

I'd have to see a reputable AAR to believe it went down like that. If they did, I can bet there was a QRF not far away. We are also at least 9 years removed from the possibility of it. I spent a lot of time in the Korengal, even the SEALs traveled in at least 12 man teams back then.