Meanwhile on RS they're killin bear, deer, elk , and moose with .223 and 77gr TMK.

[Dirtrax]

Not tried them. Have tried two 62 grain bullets and they both under 1 moa.

Sierra 65gr sbt Gameking may be your answer. Excellent bullet.

 

[308win]

Don't get me wrong, I am impressed, it's the damage to the shoulder meat when hitting bone. Those that hit the sweet spot behind the shoulder see very little of that excessive damage, but you are correct, it absolutely destroys the internal organs.

I want a bullet that has our current long range bullet accuracy with the properties of the older soft point bullet's ability to make a small entrance, mushroom to twice or more it's original diameter and hit the light switch on the way out with very little to no wasted meat.

Hey Darryle,
Give the LRHT line a look. Does just what you're wanting to do. Give me a call and I'll tell you about them. Adios

 

[del2les]

Over the decades, we've killed a fair amount of deer and hogs with 22 cals (222, 223, 22-250). The right constructed bullet and load placed in the right area is a sure killer, and one of the largest bodied Southern Whitetails, 250#, I ever killed was with a 222 Rem. My son killed his first deer with the same rifle loaded with a 63gr Sierra SMP. We've used bullets from 55-80gr with most being of the heavier construction/weight, but a few of my favorites are the 62gr TBBC, 65gr Sierra BTSP, 70gr Speer SP, 70gr NAB and the old AMAXs in 75-80 in the 22-250 and AI version.

The 62 TBBC's expand very well and drive deep due to their lead SP front and mono back half, and I actually prefer them to the Barnes or similar monos. And since I acquired a bulk box of demilled from years back, they were/are very cheap to shoot.

As for elk, moose, etc, I do not wish to use the 22 cals. YMMV

 

[highdrum]

I love how everyone talk smack about the 77gr 22 cal bullet. You nead dat dare tirty col maygnom!!! I've killed all my critters last two years with 22 and 6mm. Nothing has taken more than one shot, nor traveled further than 30-40y death sprint and piled up with jello vitals. I don't have terminal pics, but I've shot antelope with a 22cm pushing 77tmk at 3250fps, and the exit was about the size a soda can. I shot 270wsm, 300wsm 300 norma Imp, they barely rival the destruction of this bullet. Most the kills in that thread are from rifles with a mv max 2800. Get that bullet up to 3200+ it's gets even more destructive. I have a few hundred of the 95tmk 6mm, and a bunch of 130s in 6.5mm. My new 20" 65saun is going to get 130tmk(freebore is mile long, my personal reamer) so they'll be jumping a long ways. I'll work up with N555 and Rl23 and try to get them to 3100 and test on elk this shoulder season.

 

[Alibiiv]

They apparently also don't care about how much meat is wasted.

Not saying it's not possible, hunted with a guy who use a 22lr or 22 WMR, killed just about everything that walked here locally and in Louisiana.

To each his own, I want a bullet that acts like a mechanical broadhead, slices cleanly thru and you can literally watch them bleed out within a few yards and destroys little to no meat.

One of you knuckleheads take my idea, develop and patent it and we'll make you rich

Might want to take a look at the Maker bullets "T-Rex bullet if you haven't seen them. It sort of looks like a broadhead once it opens up. I have some for the .375 Raptor that I am building. They ought to work pretty well from the photos I have seen.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Have you tried any 75 gr or 88 gr ELDM's yet Lance?

No. But, I shot the 85.5 LRHT, amd while groups were insane @ 3096fps, they did not kill like the 77TMK did. Although, to be fair, a prairie dog has very little resistance to open a bullet. I did not get an opportunity to test them on coyotes.

I switched to the 90SMK @ 3095fps and holy cow. Accuracy is just as good as the 85.5 Hyb, and they work great on coyotes and jackrabbits. And thump steel pretty darn good out to 1K.

 

[xsn10s]

No. But, I shot the 85.5 LRHT, amd while groups were insane @ 3096fps, they did not kill like the 77TMK did. Although, to be fair, a prairie dog has very little resistance to open a bullet. I did not get an opportunity to test them on coyotes.

I switched to the 90SMK @ 3095fps and holy cow. Accuracy is just as good as the 85.5 Hyb, and they work great on coyotes and jackrabbits. And thump steel pretty darn good out to 1K.

Wrench over at RS had some good results using RDF's in his 6.5 CM. I may get some 22 cal RDF's next 2nd's are available. But they might work better at your velocities.

 

[Josh06]

My son put the 22cm to work over the past 2 days with the 75eldm. Both were shot at 150 yards. No exit on either, hog ran about 50 yards, deer went about 15. Both were behind the shoulder took out a few ribs on the way in and shredded lungs.

 

[Petey308]

I've been chatting on your other thread. Didn't see this one until now. Figured I'd share the same pics you requested there here, for anyone else interested in this thread too. I've killed a lot of deer and coyotes with both bullets and they've always worked well. I've only shot deer though around 150 yards and in with them. Coyotes out to several hundred yards.

The 69gr TMK and 77gr TMK measured exactly the same regarding jacket thickness. So as anticipated, the only real difference is the slightly longer ogive of the 77gr and the obvious increase in mass, which will matter more so on higher impact velocity shots and higher resistance upon impact shots. The 77gr will have the edge in those scenarios, although many times it may not be discernible. You're looking at a 11.6% increase in mass and a 12% increase in BC with the 77gr TMK vs the 69gr TMK.

 

[sierracharlie338]

Thank you for doing that. I appreciate the added data for my continuous pondering on this discipline.

 

[Petey308]

Thank you for doing that. I appreciate the added data for my continuous pondering on this discipline.

My pleasure. Good luck!

 

[Wyo37]

They apparently also don't care about how much meat is wasted.

I'm confused. Most say the little. 223 isn't "enough gun", but yet it "wastes too much meat"?.......both of those can't be true.

If .22 call were legal for elk in wy I would use a 22 creedmoor. They aren't so I use a 6mm. Worked great this year.

 

[Darryle]

I'm confused. Most say the little. 223 isn't "enough gun", but yet it "wastes too much meat"?.......both of those can't be true.

I never said it wasn't effective or enough gun, I said that particular 223 bullet wastes a ton of meat. The reason it is so effective is because the initial upset, expansion and then fragmentation.

I have read all 260+ pages of that thread, that bullet is extremely effective.

It reminds me of the original ELD, except for the fact you only experience the explosive results, none of the penciling.

No further than I shoot anymore, a bullet like the Federal 62gr Fusion is probably the perfect bullet. It has been reliable on pigs out to 200yds and I expect it would do the same with thin skinned game. Plus, they are cheap.

We all want one bullet to cover 100% of our hunting scenarios, from close to far, fast to slow, large game to small and thick skinned to thin skinned, I just don't think that bullet exists. Well, maybe the Partion or Accubond, but finding them and affording them is tough.

 

[Small Lady]

I'm confused. Most say the little. 223 isn't "enough gun", but yet it "wastes too much meat"?.......both of those can't be true.

If .22 call were legal for elk in wy I would use a 22 creedmoor. They aren't so I use a 6mm. Worked great this year.

I thought the same thing when I read that comment.
Too much, too little, shreds internals, but what no 9 inch exit hole, and on the list goes.
Not saying that this is always the case, but sometimes I believe that the huge cartridge theory used by some, is to help compensate for their poor performance in shooting.
So if for example 25% of people who think that a 300 mag is the minimum for hunting, do so because they shoot poorly, and it helps them still get kills. Then they think anything smaller, is too small.
Then we have the group who are stuck in the 1950s and think a bullet should be really solid, pass through anything and everything without any damage, and exit the animal while still going into a tree 50 yards later, and penetrating that giant fir to its core.
Group 3 likes a large cartridge because they are comfortable with it, it's familiar. But they're also excellent shooters, and can see the broader picture. Likely use a more modern bullet design, and will never change using their cannon, but also appreciate others who shoot small cartridges, and lighter bullets.
Group 4, they really don't care about the cartridge size, but want to find that bullet capable of doing catastrophic internal damage, they are also more likely to be good at shot placement, and also understand that they may not be packing a rifle designed for 500 yard shots, but also never plan to shoot anything that far away.

Have I covered it pretty well?

Ps. I still don't understand those who say its too small, but does too much damage, and wastes a lot of meat.