Meanwhile on RS they're killin bear, deer, elk , and moose with .223 and 77gr TMK.

[xsn10s]

Regardless of what each of us decides to do with this information, this is a great thread very educational. Boy have bullets come a long way!!!

Yup the whole point of this thread was to share what these bullets could do. It doesn't mean that everyone should go out and get a .223 rem and 77 TMK's. It's fine to stick with whatever you have. Just keep an open mind on what the 77 TMK's or and other bullet like it is capable of. Just another tool for the toolbox.

 

[Mike D Texas]

Comparison of 180 TTSX out of a 300 WM and the .223 77 TMK. https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/page-268#post-3362822

How about we compare both of those with a frangible bullet instead of a frangible in the small cartridge and a mono in the large one?

 

[xsn10s]

How about we compare both of those with a frangible bullet instead of a frangible in the small cartridge and a mono in the large one?

Are both of these deer in the pictures dead?

 

[Mike D Texas]

Are both of these deer in the pictures dead?

Exactly.

But that comparison isn't valid from a "destruction and wounding standpoint.

 

[xsn10s]

Exactly.

But that comparison isn't valid from a "destruction and wounding standpoint.

It's an entirely valid comparison. The two bullets in the link I posted are hard to differentiate. And both deer are dead.

 

[Mike D Texas]

It's an entirely valid comparison. The two bullets in the link I posted are hard to differentiate. And both deer are dead.

I disagree and that's ok. Yes of course they are both dead but the premise of that thread is that .223 is all that's needed to kill most anything in NA and the focus is on trauma imparted by the .223/TMK combination.

To compare wound tracts from 2 completely different types of bullets that are literally on the opposite ends of the spectrum on how they create wounds invalidates the comparison for me.

As I said, use the same or at least the same type of bullet in both cartridges and then do a comparison. I would consider that a valid comparison.

I can definitely say that the wound tracts are vastly different on a .224 Barnes bullet than they are with a TMK. I've shot 70 grain Barnes TSX bullets in my 22-250AI on large pigs for years. They work, but they are slower kills, lesser would trauma and lesser blood trails that a traditional cup/core bullet.

 

[xsn10s]

The validation comes from comparing a 300 Win Mag using the 180 TTSX in comparison to a .223 using the 77 TMK.

 

[xsn10s]

I can definitely say that the wound tracts are vastly different on a .224 Barnes bullet than they are with a TMK. I've shot 70 grain Barnes TSX bullets in my 22-250AI on large pigs for years. They work, but they are slower kills, lesser would trauma and lesser blood trails that a traditional cup/core bullet.

This statement helps support this whole thread.

 

[Mike D Texas]

This statement helps support this whole thread.

In what way?

 

[xsn10s]

In what way?

Because the natural of premium bullets is they hold up and retain much of their original weight for penetration and exit would. The reasoning is/ was that an exit wound is preferable. And cup and core fragments along the way of penetrating the intended object. It may not exit but it can create a traumatic wound channel. So a faster kill can be seen.

 

[Mike D Texas]

Because the natural of premium bullets is they hold up and retain much of their original weight for penetration and exit would. The reasoning is/ was that an exit wound is preferable. And cup and core fragments along the way of penetrating the intended object. It may not exit but it can create a traumatic wound channel. So a faster kill can be seen.

I agree in the aspect you mention. I am one that is typically on the I was a pass through club. Although I do believe there are situations where it's not necessary.

If you are hunting wide open country where you can see very large areas of land and watch the animal fall; by all means if the frangible bullet shoots better then use it.

However if I am hunting the South Texas brush country I want two holes leaking blood if needed.

My whole position throughout this has been if you like frangible bullets, shoot them. But don't pretend like they only work well in small cartridges or are only available for small cartridges. If given the same bullet in a 223 vs 300 Win Mag as in the RS scenario, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind the 300 Win Mag will have much more trauma than the 223. Then end result will be the same but stop with the Fudd name calling (not saying you specifically) of the people who still prefer to hunt with a larger, more powerful cartridge.

 

[xsn10s]

My whole position throughout this has been if you like frangible bullets, shoot them. But don't pretend like they only work well in small cartridges or are only available for small cartridges.

Nobody made the claim that they only work well in small cartridges or are only available for small cartridges. If you are claiming I did then you are misinformed.

 

[Mike D Texas]

Nobody made the claim that they only work well in small cartridges or are only available for small cartridges. If you are claiming I did then you are misinformed.

I never mentioned you.

No need to get worked up over anything. I wasn't talking about anyone specific just the thread and some of the observations I had reading through the thread on Rokslide.

 

[xsn10s]

I never mentioned you.

No need to get worked up over anything. I wasn't talking about anyone specific just the thread and some of the observations I had reading through the thread on Rokslide.

Since the discussion was between you and me it sounds as if it was directed at me. As far as some of the statements made on that thread I am not responsible for other's statements. Nor do I always agree with everything on any particular thread.