Meanwhile on RS they're killin bear, deer, elk , and moose with .223 and 77gr TMK.

[memtb]

I finally located the photos, I didn't see anything spectacular…..nothing that my old .308 Win couldn't do on a moderately close range shot with 150 grain cup and cores!

Perhaps I'm missing something! memtb

 

[xsn10s]

I finally located the photos, I didn't see anything spectacular…..nothing that my old .308 Win couldn't do on a moderately close range shot with 150 grain cup and cores!

Perhaps I'm missing something! memtb

Yup you sure are missing something.

 

[memtb]

I don't take a Texas heart shot nor do I shoot through the *** of any game.

Properly placed, a "Texas Heart-shot" is extremely effectiv. With little to no meat loss when placed "between the cheeks"!

I'll bring home a lot more meat for the freezer with a "Texas Heart-Shot"……than by passing on a shot, knowing that may be my "ONLY" opportunity for a shot!

I look down on hunting big game with "minimal calibers/cartridges much the same as many look down on the "Texas Heart-Shot"!

To each……his or her own! memtb

 

[xsn10s]

I finally located the photos, I didn't see anything spectacular…..nothing that my old .308 Win couldn't do on a moderately close range shot with 150 grain cup and cores!

Perhaps I'm missing something! memtb

The point is there was little difference between the two as far as the terminal pictures showed. Most wouldn't be able to tell the difference. And even you said it was like your 308 win lol.

 

[memtb]

I don't take a Texas heart shot nor do I shoot through the *** of any game.

By the way……a steep angling shot on an animal is not a "Texas Heart-Shot"!

On a quite large animal, this fore mentioned shot will require a lot of penetration! Not saying that a heavy .223 cup and core can't do it…..merely there are far superior options available to the hunter! memtb

 

[memtb]

The point is there was little difference between the two as far as the terminal pictures showed. Most wouldn't be able to tell the difference. And even you said it was like your 308 win lol.

I wouldn't take a steep, angling shot on a large big game animal with my .308 Win. using a 150 cup and core! Again…..there are much better options available! memtb

 

[xsn10s]

By the way……a steep angling shot on an animal is not a "Texas Heart-Shot"!

On a quite large animal, this fore mentioned shot will require a lot of penetration! Not saying that a heavy .223 cup and core can't do it…..merely there are far superior options available to the hunter! memtb

So in my original post I said look at the terminal pictures. But instead many have tried to argue against using the 77 gr TMK by making up scenarios where they think the 77gr TMK won't work. Perfect lol.

 

[Small Lady]

That has been my "signature line" for many years! memtb

If everything goes wrong, it wouldn't matter if the rifle was a 300, 338, 416, 450, or whatever. Nobody is ever forced to squeeze the trigger while hunting. If its all going wrong, hopefully the person who has the gun is smart enough to not shoot. Expecting ones gun to make up for their poor judgment, and/or lack of skill, is preposterous.
And if someone does truly believe that bigger is better, they wouldn't be shooting just a 300, or 3anything.
There are cartridges out there that make a 300 look like a fly swatter, so if bigger is better for sure, then toss that 300 on the campfire and buy a serious gun.
Or...learn to shoot better...and use better judgment on when to let the animals walk away, because it doesn't feel right.
I'm a licensed fixed wing pilot, and a good chunk of my training was around risk evaluation, and knowing when to leave the plane in the barn, or if already up, when to turn around and say screw reaching my destination.
Hunting to me is the same in many ways.
Not every day is a great day to be out hunting, and not every shot should be taken, no matter how much gun you're holding. Leaning on the bigger bullet to save you theory, is a recipe for disaster in my opinion.
I'm a pretty open minded person, but some stuff I just say no way to.

 

[xsn10s]

If everything goes wrong, it wouldn't matter if the rifle was a 300, 338, 416, 450, or whatever. Nobody is ever forced to squeeze the trigger while hunting. If its all going wrong, hopefully the person who has the gun is smart enough to not shoot. Expecting ones gun to make up for their poor judgment, and/or lack of skill, is preposterous.
And if someone does truly believe that bigger is better, they wouldn't be shooting just a 300, or 3anything.
There are cartridges out there that make a 300 look like a fly swatter, so if bigger is better for sure, then toss that 300 on the campfire and buy a serious gun.
Or...learn to shoot better...and use better judgment on when to let the animals walk away, because it doesn't feel right.
I'm a licensed fixed wing pilot, and a good chunk of my training was around risk evaluation, and knowing when to leave the plane in the barn, or if already up, when to turn around and say screw reaching my destination.
Hunting to me is the same in many ways.
Not every day is a great day to be out hunting, and not every shot should be taken, no matter how much gun you're holding. Leaning on the bigger bullet to save you theory, is a recipe for disaster in my opinion.
I'm a pretty open minded person, but some stuff I just say no way to.

What's amazing is right from the get go I said look at the terminal performance. Others have taken this as some kind of challenge to use the .223 77 TMK instead of their rifles. That was never said, at least on my part. People could of learned something from the RS post. If Berger had the same attitude we'd never have their bullets to hunt with.

History of the Match Grade Berger Hunting VLD

The story of the Berger Hunting VLD is a story of discovery rather than design. The VLD bullet design was created by Ballistician Bill Davis during a project that also involved Dr. Lou Palmisano and Ferris Pindell of PPC fame. Bill’s goal was to produce a bullet design that performed better in...

bergerbullets.com

 

[memtb]

If everything goes wrong, it wouldn't matter if the rifle was a 300, 338, 416, 450, or whatever. Nobody is ever forced to squeeze the trigger while hunting. If its all going wrong, hopefully the person who has the gun is smart enough to not shoot. Expecting ones gun to make up for their poor judgment, and/or lack of skill, is preposterous.
And if someone does truly believe that bigger is better, they wouldn't be shooting just a 300, or 3anything.
There are cartridges out there that make a 300 look like a fly swatter, so if bigger is better for sure, then toss that 300 on the campfire and buy a serious gun.
Or...learn to shoot better...and use better judgment on when to let the animals walk away, because it doesn't feel right.
I'm a licensed fixed wing pilot, and a good chunk of my training was around risk evaluation, and knowing when to leave the plane in the barn, or if already up, when to turn around and say screw reaching my destination.
Hunting to me is the same in many ways.
Not every day is a great day to be out hunting, and not every shot should be taken, no matter how much gun you're holding. Leaning on the bigger bullet to save you theory, is a recipe for disaster in my opinion.
I'm a pretty open minded person, but some stuff I just say no way to.

I've had 3 friends and 2 aquaintces murdered…..I suspect that none woke-up that morning suspecting they would be murdered that day!

Just as you do a "risk assessment"…..one should always do a "worst case" assessment! memtb

 

[memtb]

If everything goes wrong, it wouldn't matter if the rifle was a 300, 338, 416, 450, or whatever. Nobody is ever forced to squeeze the trigger while hunting. If its all going wrong, hopefully the person who has the gun is smart enough to not shoot. Expecting ones gun to make up for their poor judgment, and/or lack of skill, is preposterous.
And if someone does truly believe that bigger is better, they wouldn't be shooting just a 300, or 3anything.
There are cartridges out there that make a 300 look like a fly swatter, so if bigger is better for sure, then toss that 300 on the campfire and buy a serious gun.
Or...learn to shoot better...and use better judgment on when to let the animals walk away, because it doesn't feel right.
I'm a licensed fixed wing pilot, and a good chunk of my training was around risk evaluation, and knowing when to leave the plane in the barn, or if already up, when to turn around and say screw reaching my destination.
Hunting to me is the same in many ways.
Not every day is a great day to be out hunting, and not every shot should be taken, no matter how much gun you're holding. Leaning on the bigger bullet to save you theory, is a recipe for disaster in my opinion.
I'm a pretty open minded person, but some stuff I just say no way to.

I have a fairly acute sense for BS…..and you've been swinging the needle for quite a while! This topic is no different!

Wishing you the very best! Have a great one! memtb

 

[Small Lady]

What's amazing is right from the get go I said look at the terminal performance. Others have taken this as some kind of challenge to use the .223 77 TMK instead of their rifles. That was never said, at least on my part. People could of learned something from the RS post. If Berger had the same attitude we'd never have their bullets to hunt with.

History of the Match Grade Berger Hunting VLD

The story of the Berger Hunting VLD is a story of discovery rather than design. The VLD bullet design was created by Ballistician Bill Davis during a project that also involved Dr. Lou Palmisano and Ferris Pindell of PPC fame. Bill’s goal was to produce a bullet design that performed better in...

bergerbullets.com

Amen!

Sometimes, really good, and well meaning people, get so caught up in what they already own, and have had it for so long, they can't seem to see everything else around them.
This past summer I saw a truck advertised for sale.
The owner had it for over 30 years, and in his opinion everything about it was in PERFECT CONDITION.
So I took it for a test drive, and to a shop, where a mechanic did a prepurchase inspection of it. Driving it to the shop was a wild experience, the steering was loose it wandered all over the road, the barely working brakes made it want to go to the side, or anything but straight.
The wipers sort of worked, same with the heater, that would put out a wee bit of heat, so I couldn't claim it didn't work at all. It had a brake light out, signal light out, leaking wheel cylinder, leaking radiator, front end was severely worn out, and more.
When I took it back to the owner, and said that I wasn't interested in buying it, he asked why. I gave him the inspection sheet from the mechanic, and he got angry, said it was all lies, nothing was wrong with it.
Maybe he had just become used to the way it was over all those years. So to him it was in great shape, and it took me, and the mechanic, to notice the long list of problems.
But still he couldn't, or wouldn't, see it, despite being so obvious.
Who knows, I maybe the same way if I was twice as old as I am, and shot large caliber rifles the past 30 years, I to may not want to hear about something smaller, or trust in it.

 

[memtb]

If Berger had the same attitude we'd never have their bullets to hunt with

That's not the strongest of arguments!

They do have many positive attributes…..but, some very strong negatives as well! memtb

 

[Ckleeves]

[QUOTE="Dooner, post: I think we would all learn more by studying the failures than success pics.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Which is why shooting accurately is so important.

If someone only sees quick and successful kills, with 6mm, 243, 223, 30-30, etc then the only conclusion they can come to is they work extremely well.
In the same way that someone who sees animals run off, when shot with a 300, 308, 338, etc can form their idea of how they don't work well. Maybe they do work okay, but the shooter sucks.
Me, I would bet my money on the best shooter, not if they were carrying a 243 or 338.
When I hear/read stories about people who rarely shoot, don't even know how to 0 their rifle, much less properly account for longer shots, and adjust accordingly, those are the unethical hunters in my opinion.
If the government wants to impose rules and regulations, how about instead of cartridge, they make it on proficiency.
To get your tags annually, you must first every year show up on designated days at a range. Upon arriving you have brought exactly 20 rounds with you, and at 100 yards must hit 4 out of 4 targets the size of a quarter. At 200 yards 4 out 4 twice the size of a quarter. At 300 three time the size of a quarter 4 out of 4 times. And the same thing at 400, and 500 yards, where the target is only 4 and 5 times the size of a quarter, 4 out of 4 times. If you miss once, you'll be allowed to retest after 30 days. That qualifies people to hunt up to 500 yards only. If someone wants to qualify for longer ranges, they can try, but the targets no longer get larger, or else the error factor is too huge. They must hit a target 5 times the diameter of a quarter, 4 out of 4 times, at the range they wish to qualify to hunt at.
5 times the diameter of a quarter is pretty large, if they cannot be accurate on something that BIG, well then they best get practicing. It would also assure their rifle is properly sighted, and they have a clue about bullet drop, windage, etc.
Dude A, who has a 243, and is a good shooter, is a vastly more ethical hunter, than Dude B, who can't shoot worth crap but has a 338.
[/QUOTE]
I'll put money down you, me and most people on this forum couldn't pass this test. You're talking less than a one minute target with zero misses allowed. Try it and see. I bet you don't get to 300 yards.