Mauser officianados, help needed.

[DustThroughaFan]

A friend of mine has this mauser he wants to rebarrel. Currently it's chambered in 6.5x257 Robert's. Started life as a 6.5 Japanese. Or so I was told. Long story short, it's shot out, and he wants to turn it into a 22-250.

I've built all of one rifle myself and this may be my second if it happens. I've read into the mausers a little and other than the 55 degree thread, there doesn't seem to be anything really unusual about the job.

Then there's the small ring and large ring variations. I would assume, based on the caliber that this would be a small ring action ?
I asked him if there were any identifying marks on the action and he said there were none.

I guess my main question is, would this action be suited for the 22-250 cartridge and would it be safe ?

Any and all info is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[sable tireur]

A friend of mine has this mauser he wants to rebarrel. Currently it's chambered in 6.5x257 Robert's. Started life as a 6.5 Japanese.

The rifle illustrated is a Japanese Arisaka rifle, not a Mauser.

The 6.5×50mmSR Arisaka (designated as the 6,5 × 51 R (Arisaka) by the C.I.P.[1]) is a semi-rimmed rifle cartridge with a 6.705 mm (.264 in) diameter bullet. It was the standard Japanese military cartridge from 1897 until the late 1930s for service rifles and machine guns when it was gradually replaced by the 7.7×58mm Arisaka.

Thousands of the rifles as surplus were 'sanitized' by removing all of the stamps and indicators, even the 'mum' engraving.

6.5×50mmSR Arisaka (center) with .303 British (left) and .30-06 (right).

Note that the 6.5 Jap is a semi-rimmed cartridge. The .220 Swift might be more appropriate...

There is a lot of work here in the project as you have suggested. Yes, you may have completed one rifle like tinker toys, but this one is a real gunsmith project requiring knowledge and experience.

Personally, I suggest that your buddy try a different approach. This requires some real research not just a quick look on the internet.

Be careful please.

 

[DustThroughaFan]

The rifle illustrated is a Japanese Arisaka rifle, not a Mauser.

The 6.5×50mmSR Arisaka (designated as the 6,5 × 51 R (Arisaka) by the C.I.P.[1]) is a semi-rimmed rifle cartridge with a 6.705 mm (.264 in) diameter bullet. It was the standard Japanese military cartridge from 1897 until the late 1930s for service rifles and machine guns when it was gradually replaced by the 7.7×58mm Arisaka.

Thousands of the rifles as surplus were 'sanitized' by removing all of the stamps and indicators, even the 'mum' engraving.

View attachment 576810
6.5×50mmSR Arisaka (center) with .303 British (left) and .30-06 (right).

View attachment 576811

Note that the 6.5 Jap is a semi-rimmed cartridge. The .220 Swift might be more appropriate...

There is a lot of work here in the project as you have suggested. Yes, you may have completed one rifle like tinker toys, but this one is a real gunsmith project requiring knowledge and experience.

Personally, I suggest that your buddy try a different approach. This requires some real research not just a quick look on the internet.

Be careful please.

10-4, it appears I may be out of my depth here. Thanks for the brief history.

 

[nwhunter]

I would guess that at least 100,000 Arisaka's have been converted to 6.5/257 over the years.
I have probably had at least 10 of them.
I killed my first buck with one when I was 10 years old.
The real problem here is that the cost of rebarreling this rifle will far surpass the value of it.
I have a soft spot in my heart for the Arisaka and will probably always own one.
If your friend really wants to do this because of sentimental reasons I say go for it.
The one I currently own has been modified to a 25 Souper, which is a 25/308 basically.
It has had the original barrel shank threaded to except a new barrel of this smaller caliber.
It would likely be a challenge to find a gunsmith to undertake this project today. At least at a price you want.

 

[DustThroughaFan]

I was going to do this probono pretty much. My friend covering the barrel/reamer. My main interest in doing it is just the experience. I don't do this for a living. Not even sure you could call it a hobby. I just want to learn the work.

I've had an interest in this stuff since I had my first custom rifle built. The Smith that built my first one let me sit in and watch the process and I was hooked. I think I was 18 at the time. Later on I bought a lathe and started acquiring tooling and eventually trued and built my first model 700.

Maybe one day I'll get decent enough to take on some side work and supplement my hobbies. Until then, I'm just trying to take in all I can.

 

[tobnpr]

I just want to learn the work.

Learn away...
Before even considering what modifications may be needed for extraction, ejection, boltface, magazine, receiver feed rails, etc.- you start with the receiver. Never worked on (or even owned) an Arisaka, but...

The 6.5 x 50 was a 42,700 or so PSI cartridge.
The .22-250 is 65,000.

Full Stop

 

[nhenry]

Learn away...
Before even considering what modifications may be needed for extraction, ejection, boltface, magazine, receiver feed rails, etc.- you start with the receiver. Never worked on (or even owned) an Arisaka, but...

The 6.5 x 50 was a 42,700 or so PSI cartridge.
The .22-250 is 65,000.

Full Stop

Arisakas were one of the strongest actions of WWII, full stop. They can handle the pressure. Both the 38 and 99 can handle full pressure rounds.

What OP has is a sporterized type 38. I don't know much about the project at hand, but it's not out of the realm of possibilities.

 

[VinceMule]

As stated previously, Arisakas are one of the strongest bolt guns made.

 

[tobnpr]

Arisakas were one of the strongest actions of WWII, full stop. They can handle the pressure. Both the 38 and 99 can handle full pressure rounds.

What OP has is a sporterized type 38. I don't know much about the project at hand, but it's not out of the realm of possibilities.

Documentation, please? Not arguing- but I'm the "show me" type- testing, metallurgy, usual "stuff".
No problems with wartime production like Mausers?

 

[nhenry]

Documentation, please? Not arguing- but I'm the "show me" type- testing, metallurgy, usual "stuff".

Ackley once did proof testing of receivers and the only ones he couldn't blow up were Arisakas and I think (don't quote me on this) carcanos, though I'm not sure which model of the latter. I'd have to look through old Ackley literature to find that info. I'll PM you when I do.

Furthermore, which I just remembered and am editing to add:
Type 38s don't have any numbers that were just "thrown together" like Type 99s in the later years of the war effort. They're solid actions.

Another ETA:
"Hatcher's Notebook" is a point of reference I'll drop here, since you can most likely find the info on a PDF of the book on the web. Page 198 is when he starts talking about the "Strength of Military Rifles." Back when I read the full book, I remember he tested the Arisaka to something extreme like 110k PSI or something extraordinary like that. Springfields and some Mausers failed around 70k PSI +/-.

 

[nwhunter]

The biggest worry would be if it was really an Arisaka trainer. As it is already a 6.5/257 and the barrel is worn out, it must have been shot with some reasonable power loads already.
The only concern I would have is the amount of work and the cost to do this conversion.

 

[tobnpr]

Interesting.
I've done large ring Mauser (worthy ones) conversions, but never had anyone ask me to do an Arisaka.
I "assumed" it was because the receivers weren't worthy of modern high-pressure cartridges, but it must be due to relative difficulty (or impossibility) of mag/receiver/bolt mods needed. Solid rear receiver bridge, doesn't appear to have any features making it difficult to scope.

So why is this the red-headed stepchild of sporterized milsurp receivers if the receivers are so strong?

 

[DustThroughaFan]

Talked to the guy that owns the rifle this evening and told him what I'd learned about it. He said he didn't mind putting the money into it to make it a working rifle again. He inherited it from his dad so he doesn't want to get rid of it and he'd rather have it usable than just sitting in the safe taking up space.

So, at some point, I will probably take this job on. I do have the benefit of knowing someone personally that is local to me that has turned one into a 243win. I think he's on the forum but I'm not sure of his user name.

I just recently got a new (to me) lathe and there's some work to be done on it before it goes into service so it may be a little while before I get this project.

Really the only thing that bothers me is the extractor cut on the breach tenon. Never done that before. Other than that it's pretty straight forward. I was informed it is a 55 degree thread, 14 tpi.

When I get around to it I'll be sure to share some pictures and my experiences along the way.

If anybody has more to add on these rifles I'm all ears. I've enjoyed the comments so far.

 

[DustThroughaFan]

Interesting.
I've done large ring Mauser (worthy ones) conversions, but never had anyone ask me to do an Arisaka.
I "assumed" it was because the receivers weren't worthy of modern high-pressure cartridges, but it must be due to relative difficulty (or impossibility) of mag/receiver/bolt mods needed. Solid rear receiver bridge, doesn't appear to have any features making it difficult to scope.

So why is this the red-headed stepchild of sporterized milsurp receivers if the receivers are so strong?

Maybe because they're ugly ?