Thanks. My new chamber seems to be a bit shorter but the old brass is working. Was wondering if I just got lucky.
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"Match" Chamber?
- Thread starter CaptnC
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SavageHunter11
Well-Known Member
Match chambers usually have slightly tighter tolerances than SAMMI spec if I remember correctly. I have had multiple Criterion barrels through Northland Shooter Supply with another on the way and you won't be sorry if you decide to go with them. All my Criterion barrels are shooters. Only downside with them is your going to wait 2 to 3 months for a barrel.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
One other thing worth mentioning.
The term "Match grade barrel" is thrown around to loosely and is used many times as a sales trick. The true match grade barrel is based on dimensional tolerances being very close to .0000.
Many barrel makers build barrels and then grade them based on tolerances, there best barrel will normally be graded Match or select match. this still does not mean that it is the best available, just the best they have. Tolerances are different barrel maker to barrel maker and research is necessary to find out what tolerances each barrel maker builds to and what each grade means.
A few barrel makers build to a tolerance instead on grading to it. This normally means better quality barrel to barrel because any barrel that does not achieve there standards is rejected even though it falls well within other barrel makers standard acceptance tolerances.
I consider these barrel makers makers of "premium match grade barrels" based on their acceptable tolerances, not what they advertise.
Buy a premium barrel, reamer and have a skilled smith chamber it and you will have a "Match grade Rifle"
J E CUSTOM
The term "Match grade barrel" is thrown around to loosely and is used many times as a sales trick. The true match grade barrel is based on dimensional tolerances being very close to .0000.
Many barrel makers build barrels and then grade them based on tolerances, there best barrel will normally be graded Match or select match. this still does not mean that it is the best available, just the best they have. Tolerances are different barrel maker to barrel maker and research is necessary to find out what tolerances each barrel maker builds to and what each grade means.
A few barrel makers build to a tolerance instead on grading to it. This normally means better quality barrel to barrel because any barrel that does not achieve there standards is rejected even though it falls well within other barrel makers standard acceptance tolerances.
I consider these barrel makers makers of "premium match grade barrels" based on their acceptable tolerances, not what they advertise.
Buy a premium barrel, reamer and have a skilled smith chamber it and you will have a "Match grade Rifle"
J E CUSTOM
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
We can force brass all over the place but your die has to match what your trying to do, if you didn't plan it you got lucky, it's way easier to push a shoulder and size the front of the case, as you go back to the base that's where it hits the fan and you have issues.
Well - coincidentally, I just bought a couple of barrels from NSS. I spoke to James, the sales guy, who was very helpful and knowledgeable, and I asked him what the "Match" chamber was for the .243 AI in their Criterion Barrel, since that was one of the barrels on my shopping list. He told me that the only difference between the standard SAAMI chamber and the Match chamber is a longer throat for the longer, heavier bullets. It has nothing to do with turning necks. Just passing info on from what I heard from the horse's mouth.
As far as using once fired brass - I have used plenty, mostly 223/556 and 308 Win (I only use once fired, mixed head stamp brass for plinking, not for big game or the occasional friendly competition shoot) I clean it, inspect it, size it, trim it and shoot it without any trouble. Sizing the brass brings it back to a SAAMI spec, so it should fit in any SAAMI chamber. One of the many advantages of reloading for me is that once I fire brass in my rifles, I can then (usually) get by with just neck sizing the brass, and thus the now once fired brass out of my rifle, has a nice tight fit in my chamber. I assume, that no matter the source of brass, most of the reloaders start by full length sizing their brass, then trimming it to length. Therefor, in my mind - and in my experience, using quality once fired brass shouldn't be an issue. Just don't skip that inspection step and weed out any cases that are too beat up.
As far as using once fired brass - I have used plenty, mostly 223/556 and 308 Win (I only use once fired, mixed head stamp brass for plinking, not for big game or the occasional friendly competition shoot) I clean it, inspect it, size it, trim it and shoot it without any trouble. Sizing the brass brings it back to a SAAMI spec, so it should fit in any SAAMI chamber. One of the many advantages of reloading for me is that once I fire brass in my rifles, I can then (usually) get by with just neck sizing the brass, and thus the now once fired brass out of my rifle, has a nice tight fit in my chamber. I assume, that no matter the source of brass, most of the reloaders start by full length sizing their brass, then trimming it to length. Therefor, in my mind - and in my experience, using quality once fired brass shouldn't be an issue. Just don't skip that inspection step and weed out any cases that are too beat up.
John Klingenberg
Well-Known Member
NSS is a great company. I put a match stainless heavy varmint in 260 on a Rem 700 last fall. It shoots tiny little groups. The customer service is great and theyll walk you through the process if you need it. With 25-06 you should have minimal or no neck turning. Just some trimming. The necks should be thinning the neck some in the forming process. 270 there may be some but it's a one time process.
Oh my, lots to discuss on this one.
What does match chamber mean? Could be reamer specs (throat, neck, etc), or could be chambering method (precision concentricity vs conventional) or could even be barrel specs (straightness, air gauged, stress relieved, lapping, etc). Or, or, or.... Call the barrel maker and ask them what it means to them.
I for one agree with that other barrel maker who advised against once fired brass. I've seen that cause WAY TOO MANY PROBLEMS. Why take the chance? If you are gunna do it, make sure they chamber EASILY and then fire form them AGAIN to the chamber you plan to use them in. If they don't fit easily, full length size them and try again. Keep in mind that not all full length dies have the same dimensions, and furthermore not all full length dies are GUARANTEED to size brass properly for all custom chambers. Most will of course, but SOME do looser bases and/or shoulders and/or walls than others. You won't know for sure till you try.
If you decide to turn necks, get the very best tools you can buy. This is not a task to cut corners on. You could easily end up doing more harm than good and never even know it! The good tools do a decent job in relatively short times - but don't rush it and follow the instructions to the letter! The dreaded donut is only an issue if your seating depth approaches the shoulder neck junction. Unfortunately, most 6.5 bullets are long and usually do. For the 6.5, I recommend no-turn. Tighter than normal but loose enough that neck turning is not required. Alternatively, there are a few tools around that will precision bore necks instead of turning them. They act like a reamer instead of outside turning. This avoids the donut. Another alternative is to buy 25-06 brass and expand them. This will result in a thinner neck than using 30-06 brass and necking down.
Frankly, I'm not a fan of pre-chambered barrels. I doubt very much that the maker will precision align the bore before cutting the chamber to the same level of precision that a precision smith will do. Besides, they still have to be precision fitted to the action. Why not let the smith who is fitting them to the action, chamber them too?
Good luck.
What does match chamber mean? Could be reamer specs (throat, neck, etc), or could be chambering method (precision concentricity vs conventional) or could even be barrel specs (straightness, air gauged, stress relieved, lapping, etc). Or, or, or.... Call the barrel maker and ask them what it means to them.
I for one agree with that other barrel maker who advised against once fired brass. I've seen that cause WAY TOO MANY PROBLEMS. Why take the chance? If you are gunna do it, make sure they chamber EASILY and then fire form them AGAIN to the chamber you plan to use them in. If they don't fit easily, full length size them and try again. Keep in mind that not all full length dies have the same dimensions, and furthermore not all full length dies are GUARANTEED to size brass properly for all custom chambers. Most will of course, but SOME do looser bases and/or shoulders and/or walls than others. You won't know for sure till you try.
If you decide to turn necks, get the very best tools you can buy. This is not a task to cut corners on. You could easily end up doing more harm than good and never even know it! The good tools do a decent job in relatively short times - but don't rush it and follow the instructions to the letter! The dreaded donut is only an issue if your seating depth approaches the shoulder neck junction. Unfortunately, most 6.5 bullets are long and usually do. For the 6.5, I recommend no-turn. Tighter than normal but loose enough that neck turning is not required. Alternatively, there are a few tools around that will precision bore necks instead of turning them. They act like a reamer instead of outside turning. This avoids the donut. Another alternative is to buy 25-06 brass and expand them. This will result in a thinner neck than using 30-06 brass and necking down.
Frankly, I'm not a fan of pre-chambered barrels. I doubt very much that the maker will precision align the bore before cutting the chamber to the same level of precision that a precision smith will do. Besides, they still have to be precision fitted to the action. Why not let the smith who is fitting them to the action, chamber them too?
Good luck.
ronstone09
Well-Known Member
much tighter than a normal chamber ! In my match chamber .260 , I cant get the normal brass to fit and usualy have to neck turn the brass to fit the chamber .395
I have a Remage Criterion barrel in 260 from NSS and I requested a chamber tech drawing from them and they emailed it to me, the only difference was the freebore.
Paul Watterson
New Member
In a match chamber you can specify the exact bullet you intend to shoot,
whether its a no turn neck chamber or not, the length of the free bore,
the type of rifling and twist rate, type of steel ... I prefer cut rifling as
opposed to button rifled. If you are looking for a top notch gunsmith
let me know. The barrel in my profile is a Bartlein made from 416R
stainless steel and cut 5R rifling. I can shoot 0.175 at 100 yards with it.
scooterf79
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2017
- Messages
- 71
What he said ^^^ I did my first barrel swap with NSS. And I got the 280AI "Match". This is what James told me. I don't think it's anything to be concerned with.
Scooter
I've got a couple 6.5/06. Both are 6.5/06 a square. No there not match chambers, bought my reamer from Pacific, both shoot 2.5 to 3 in groups at 700 yrs. I always neck up from 25/06 brass with good results, if your going to hunt with them a match chamber may be more of a hindrance than help. And from what I've seen not much improvement in accuracy either so for hunting I wouldn't do it.
Just prior to going out of business A-Square filed SAMMI specs for a standard spec 6.5-06 cartridge. SAMMI approved the filing as long as the 6.5-06 standard pressure was such that it kept the 6.5 at least 100 fps slower than the 270 Win. The match chamber should hold to the exact SAMMI Specs.
Wish I had a total BS Flag to throw....
Ed
Wish I had a total BS Flag to throw....
Ed
