Lowering "RECOIL" for hunting & Shooting

[Debo]

First off I want to thank "all" of you for giving your opinions, I really appreciate it. I still don't know if that 110BA would be right for me or not, as a lot of you seem to like the Remington 700, So,again, like some of you have said, "What may be *Easy* recoil for you may bruise or dislocate "my" shoulder." I have no idea what a 243 feels like as I have never shot one. I have shot 223. M4 before. And I'm ok with that. Not sure what the difference in recoil would be... I'm going to put a add on Craig's list to see if I can find someone with a 243. if that is what that 110BA feels like, then I can try it. I'm surprised that no one on here has actually recommended the 110BA,as a few around here have, (is it not accurate enough out of the box??) you all have said many others, Quite a few have mentioned the Rem-700 I don't know because no one has come out and said, but are you saying that the Rem-700 is way more accurate out of the box than the 110BA?? If that is true, is there any of you Gun smiths on here able to put a "Beretta-Kick-Off-System" into a Rem-700 plastic stock? Oh, by the way my left shoulder has also had operations, torn Rotater cup and shredded my bicep tendons on Left shoulder, so my left side is only a "little" better than my right. I have been shooting "almost" 50 years right handed, so I really don't think I should try to switch now. LOL! I just can't believe there isn't any gun makers that can figure out how to make a gun that doesn't "HURT" to shoot... That being said, I guess I'm just going to have to find some one with different Cal. so I can try to shoot them to see what's the biggest I can shoot 4-5 rounds and still move the next day. Anyone know of anybody in the LasVegas area with some guns I could try?? Does anyone know what the foot-LBS of recoil is on a Beretta Ureka-2 shotgun with the K/O system would be?? As I can shoot that ok shooting skeet, (25-rounds) with 2-3/4 skeet-rounds. I know some of you are still trying to talk me into a 30-06 or 270, but "everyone" around here has said 7mm-Mag or bigger, and 90%has said the 300. Winchester-Mag as Best all around cal For North-America hunting. They always added, if you can take it go bigger, but you don't need to, they said. So, Like I said before I think I'm going with the 300WM, now I just need to find the "Most accurate" out of the box with the lowest recoil stock, so I can put a "Super" Muzzle break on it, I want a stock with either a thumb hole or a stock like the 110BA so I can grip it good. I don't mind spending the money to put a better Muzzle break on the 110BA if it needs it. And for the guy that said if I got the 110BA and with scope if it weighed 20 lbs and I pay to go hunt Goats on rugged terrain, then if I'm going to "pay" this guy he can carry it to where were going if I can't take my quad up there. ) I don't think I would hunt goats as I don't think there is as much good meat on them as a Elk or Deer, and I hunt for food. Not Trophy's, I just wish I could just get a Combo just once!! (Big-Deer with a big rack!) But we'll see, Maybe I can get an elk with a rack. If not I may do one of those AZ or Texas Hunts to get a Big Buck. Either way, I want to make sure what ever gun I get in a 300wm I can shoot it easy and be able to hunt anything with it. I've emailed Limb-savers and the other company someone posted and asked if they have a piece/unit, that would fit over the 110BA stock end that would reduce the recoil even more. So I'm waiting to hear back from them. So, again, is the 110BA not very accurate?? Or is it? Or what? Or is the REM-700 That more accurate out of the box? Also someone mentioned the Savage-Long-range-Hunter, So, is it "more" or "less" accurate at 1000 yards than the 110BA, or The Rem-700?? I was talking to some more people around here and they said it's not uncommon for them to shoot "Elk" at 600-800 yards and some over 900. But most they said are 400-800 yards depending where you draw the tags, and if your lucky they said, they know one area that you can drive up and sit 20ft away from your quad and they will walk within 100 yards of you and 95% of the time they are walking broadside in front of you... I hope I get a tag in that area, but if not, I want to be prepaired for the 1000YD shot... (And hope it's less) I'm looking into the Brakes you all mentioned, and hope to find the right combo, with the right gun, and stock with all the recoil reducing stuff I can get put on it and a great Muzzle break as well... I really don't care how loud it is, because the bullet will be traveling faster then the sound, so I would have already put the bullet in the boiler-room before it hears the bang. I can always wear double, "Plugs and headsets" if I have to.. )) As long as he goes down in a heap... I'm good. ;-) Thanks again for all the help. Again I just need someone to now answer these questions about the accuracy of the 110BA and the rem-700 and the Savage LRH as well out of the box in the 300WM. Now that I'm going with the 300WM. Cal. Thanks!

 

[Bravo 4]

Sounds like you favor the Savage 110BA. If that's the case and you want to spent that much money on a factory rifle then go for it. Or if you want a Remington then go for it. Hate to say it but a Ford V.'s Chevy thing. With the ammount of money you want to drop there are plenty of options.

Here is my problem with this threat, and I don't want to sound rude. You need to make up your mind what you need. Your first post states you want a mild recoiling 500 yard elk rifle you don't have to carry. Then it goes to a one rifle to hunt anything. Now it's out to 1200 yards for anything (I didn't go back and read every post again so I'm running off of memory, correct me if I went astray). If you will not have to carry the thing on hunts I have two things to say about that:
1. You have a great friend that you need to cherish! Sounds like he will have to carry not only your rifle to places you cannot drive, but your equipment and possibly a very large dead animal on the way out as well.
2. Check the game laws to make sure it's legal, there is another thread going about other's carrying your rifle for you.

Back on subject- If the weight isn't gonna be a negative, then use it as a positive like others have suggested. Just remember that you might not be carrying it, but somebody is gonna have to.

 

[diriel]

I happen to like savage way more than remington. I think on average you will more often get a nicely accurate Out of The Box Savage. If you need to reach out to 800 yards and maintain MOA accuracy, then you really need to consider a custom built rifle to guarantee that level of accuracy can be met.

That all being said, remington is one of the most widely smithed actions out there, and they might be a bit easier to get a hold of as a donar action for a build. Certainly either one will work, as will Winchester / FN which is very good these days too.

For what you need and want sir, I honestly believe a custom or semi custom will serve your needs better. Buy once Cry Once. That 110BA is so expensive out of the box that you are pushing up into borderline custom area. The deal is simple, very rarely will an Out of The Box anything come anywhere near to shooting as good as a hand built rifle will, and the custom built one will fit you better which will help accuracy and comfort.

I have a friend who has pins in his shoulder, a 243 for him is painful but not completely deal breaking. I think you might be in worse shape, so stacking every odd in your favor is needed in my opinion. I think a lot of the gents missed some of your needs and that you will Not be Humping It In and Out.

At this point I need to urge you to consider that 7 mag. The 160gr class of bullets will certainly get it done with room to spare, and it will recoil a bit less.

----- Gun Build -----

*-- Rifle Stock = extremely important given your situation. Manners MCS-GAT, which is a very nice thumbhole design. It is listed as a tactical stock, but do not let that scare you off. Tac shooters demand way above average ergonomics. Make sure who ever builds this rifle for you properly measures you and fits the stock to you. Trust me it makes a difference. Ask for 4.5 to 5 lbs. "Sniper Fill" they _Should_ understand. It is about weapon recoil characteristics and balance of weapon. You want 5 lbs if you go with the 26" #7 rifle barrel, and around 4.5 lbs if you go with something like a medium palma contour barrel.

*-- Recoil Pad = Pachmyer Decelerator is about as good as it gets, and is default on Manners Stocks.

*-- Bi-Pod = Harris Series S Bipod Model LM 913. Overall this is rock solid. You want the notched version and the Swivel. Some folks don't like the swivel, but if you shoot prone In The Real World, you need to be able to easily cant the rifle to level. You want an aftermarket Gun Stock that is strong enough to not flex in the fore end! McMillan and Manners are the 2 that I most highly recommend. If you do not plan on shooting prone much then you do not need this, so disregard it.

*-- The sling = Rifle Slings - Tactical Intervention Specialists Sniper Rifle I am not kidding when I say this guy makes top notch slings. They are as comfortable as you will find. They are well made, and they are all business.

*-- Barrel = 26" before Muzzle Brake & about 27.5" or there about after Brake depending. You want a #7 contour or equivalent, possibly a Medium Palma. The reason here is because they are so extremely well "understood" in how they affect accuracy and balance of weapon. There is no magic, just something that has been done millions of times the world over and is well tuned and understood. You Want The Weight! Weight is good...

*-- Muzzle Brake = So many great brakes out there... the Badger FTE is known to be very good. There are people on this site that make brakes as well and they are quite good as well. The 7 mag will benefit very well indeed from a brake.

*-- Rifle Action = Pick one, but talk to your gun smith about his preferences. Remington might be overall best partly because if you want detachable magazines then just about every option on planet earth is made for Remington. The AI / AW mag's tend to be one of the most common. These mags are considered by most to be generally about as good as it gets. I am not saying you need a detachable mag. For me, they are just something else to go wrong. Still they can be kind of nice.

You want this thing to end up about 16lbs before scope, very similar to what the 110BA weighs, yes they did their homework weight wise. Weight will help tame recoil.

In summary, the reason to go with a custom built rifle is that you *WILL* get the accuracy you need, and the weapon will be as comfortable as possible to shoot for you

Gary

 

[Debo]

Well Bravo, it's like this, and I've stated it in other posts as well, I'm not sure what he meant by get a gun that shoots accurately at 500 yards, Did he mean that's the "Minimum" were going to shoot or the maximum, or is the about the middle??? I just posted what he said because I have no idea exactly what he meant... I have talked with others around here since I posted that first posting, and most have said count on 400-800 yards and some also said be prepared for 900+ as you never know, So, That's why I posted again and put the longer distances as it seemed that everyone was taking it as 500 was "ABSOLUTE" "MAXIMUM" distance only, when I never said that it was. Also when you jump to 1000+yards it takes out all the little 270's that he told me in the first place was too small. As he said 7mm-Mag or Larger for where he hunts mostly. So that's why I changed the yardage. Then I was expecting that there were some "Smart" people over the last 30 years in the "Rifle" manufacturing companies that would already have "Low" recoil Hunting guns for North-America, But I was wrong, I expected I would have to pay around $700. for a "Low Recoil" either 7mm-mag or 300WM and I thought because "Range finders have been out for over 20 years that "Every" Scope maker would have a bunch of them built in and would be in the $400-500 range for a really good one...But they can't find any innovators either.. (Just Burris.) So if I have to spend thousands to basically build a "custom" hunting gun then I need it for any hunt I do, as I'm not going to buy more "Hunting" guns. As I'm going to spend the money for 5 guns on this "one"... I need to get it right. I'm not jumping into anything and I'm still doing research when I can on all the great ideas and info I got on here and some other forms as well as calling all the "Outfitters" around the country (With 800 numbers, )) just to get their opinions as well. Because I'm spending all the money I have saved over the last 15 years to do a "Buck-Hunt" just on this gun so I can have a chance to get an "Elk" as I will never get a chance like this again because you can only apply once in 10 years here for "Elk"...(I don't think I will make it to apply again...) I'm going to try to get all the hunting I can do in the next few years and hope I get something with a rack so I can mount it. I don't care if it's Spike-Horns, I'm mounting my first buck... So, anyways that's the reason for the changes in the postings. Sorry if it confused anyone as I have been very confused by all this info as well.. But I'll figure it out sooner or later... ))gun)

 

[diriel]

@Debo,

Hey, I hear you. All I am saying is, if you planned on spending essentially $2500 on a Savage, then you could probably get a semi custom that would out shoot the OEM rifle. It will fit you like a glove, and it will do what you need. As you just said, life is too short to not at least try to live it. I don't blame you at all for deciding to go for it, and then having people around you say "hey its like this" and you think ... What?

I honestly understand your limitations. I read every word of what you wrote. What I am saying about a 2500 dollar rifle is, if I am going to spend that much it WILL have a rock solid guarantee of accuracy and function!! Not so sure Savage will 100% guarantee MOA out to 500-800+ yards.

Good luck with your hunt, I hope you bag a Boone and Crocket trophy

Gary

 

[Debo]

Ok, you got my interest Diriel, So where around here do I get a custom made one that will have "less recoil" than the 110BA and the Guaranteed accuracy like you said around here and that will fit me like a glove? I called a couple of shops after I figured out I need/want, the 300WM, and the ones I called said right away, "can't be done", or there isn't any "Low-Recoil" 300WM guns made.. So the Gun smiths/shops around here don't seem to know what there doing.. I wasn't going to take the time to educate them on a subject they are supposed to know more than me on, by explaining to them that I already found a "Stock" gun that in a 300WM only kicks like a 243. and They should already know it, and know how to reduce it even lower... But if I'm already smarter then them on this, I really don't want them working on my guns... How do I find a good place I can trust that will Guaranty it to 800yards? And keep it to around $2,000? ))

 

[diriel]

Drop down to the Gunsmithing section of the forum and ask in there. There are several highly reputed smiths that are members of this site. Feel free to refer them to my post, if they have questions I will be happy to chime in.

Rifle Stock Fit :: I have a good friend who owns a Ruger .338 win mag. He also owns a Ruger .270 win, and a 25-06 in Ruger. He is a long time avid hunter. I taught him to reload his own ammo. Part of that process was determining what all guns he had. When he said he had a .338 Win Mag that had never been "blooded" I asked him "why not?". His answer was that the scope would make him bleed due to recoil (scope kiss). I then taught him how to properly fit the rifle to his physical build. He has bagged at least 2 deer that I know of for sure with that .338 Win Mag to date. It was a combination of reloading and rifle fitting that enabled that. He is healthy, but nobody I have ever met likes bleeding due to Scope Bite

So often I meet people who insist a gun stock is a gun stock and it don't matter... /sigh. The most painful to shoot rifle I ever owned was a Stevens 110 in a factory wood stock. It was only a 30-06 but I swear that thing would not only cross my eyes every shot, but every other shot it would make me bleed! Live and learn...I got lucky and found a mentor who taught me what I know about shooting, part of which was how to fit a rifle to ME. If some one tells you it does not matter...don't argue, just move on.

Gary