Low recoil deer rig for friend with cancer

[TX Badger]

I have a bunch of 100gr stuff I could try in my creedmoor. 123s are pretty light recoiling too, so a slightly downloaded 100gr and bulky powder should work fine.

What do you recommend in the way of bulky powder?

 

[Smokinghole]

For a bullet that light AA2495 might be ideal it was pretty bulky for 556 and Grendel cases.

 

[318lll9740]

Grendel.

 

[dougduey]

For a 200 yard max, I think you are WAAAAY overcomplicating this. If he has an AR, set him up with a 6.5 Grendel upper. If he doesn't have an AR, or doesn't like them, buy a CZ527 in 6.5 Grendel. You won't need to download. You won't need a brake. You won't need to handload. Factory 123's @ 2500 or so will do everything that your friend needs done in a short package of reasonable weight. If padding is needed for his cheek, there are easy options for either the CZ or the AR. For the CZ, you can mount the scope in higher rings and go with something like this:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/4...it-20-no-loops-model-buttstock-cover-neoprene

For an AR, there are many skeletonized stocks with padded cheekrests available.

The 6.5 Grendel is a great option. I built one for my boy on a AR platform my .243 LOP is too long for him and the Grendel won't kick his butt with recoil. I use the Grendel as my hog gun and it's a pleasure to shoot (I'm a dentist and understand how recoil will effect the jaw). Another option is the 450 Bushmaster. It's deadly out to 250-300 yards. You can get it an AR (or just buy a new upper) or Ruger has now made a bolt version for the changes in the Michigan laws for the lower 2/3 of the state, which allows it in place of a shotgun with slug or buckshot. I've had a group of my friends change over to it this year and they killed 4 bucks on openning day. They said the deer all dropped in their tracks

 

[jrock]

Not in your range but 100+ grain 6mm bullets kill deer just fine IMO. You'll get better BC's in that range than going with a really light 6.5 bullet. However, at shorter ranges, it really doesn't matter. I recommend .243 for off the shelf low recoil but if you want 6.5+, 7mm 08 is pretty easy to come buy as well.

 

[TX Badger]

Not in your range but 100+ grain 6mm bullets kill deer just fine IMO. You'll get better BC's in that range than going with a really light 6.5 bullet. However, at shorter ranges, it really doesn't matter. I recommend .243 for off the shelf low recoil but if you want 6.5+, 7mm 08 is pretty easy to come buy as well.

With higher sectional density the .243 at 100 grain would probably be better, but then you are maxed out. The benefit of the 6.5 is that it leaves the option of heavier bullets in the future. This is a barrel that will never be shot enough to be burned out so its a long term plan that I'm working on. Same problem with the Grendel. Fine for now but it cannot be loaded up to higher performance in the future.

 

[midnightmalloy]

So I will bite on the stock recommendation as it looks like most are focused on the cartridge discussion.

Your question on stock dimensions is a very common one in the competitive shotgun world I used to play in and fit many people to stocks.
I would suggest not getting any stock that has any drop at heel. So a true parallel comb or a negative comb would be my suggestion. Parallel combs with the setup you are taking about, with a muzzle brake that reduces muzzle rise, should recoil STRAIGHT BACK and this will have a parallel comb slide past the cheek and not press up into the cheek like a stock that has drop at the heel.

My #1 suggestion for your friends situation would be to find a stock with a negative comb. The cheek weld slopes down from the butt stock to towards the action. This allows no padding or minimal padding to be used on the comb and when the rifle is fired it RELEASES the cheek away from the stock. This allows for a more solid cheek weld to the stock and doesn't impact your friends cheek during recoil.

 

[TX Badger]

So I will bite on the stock recommendation as it looks like most are focused on the cartridge discussion.

Your question on stock dimensions is a very common one in the competitive shotgun world I used to play in and fit many people to stocks.
I would suggest not getting any stock that has any drop at heel. So a true parallel comb or a negative comb would be my suggestion. Parallel combs with the setup you are taking about, with a muzzle brake that reduces muzzle rise, should recoil STRAIGHT BACK and this will have a parallel comb slide past the cheek and not press up into the cheek like a stock that has drop at the heel.

My #1 suggestion for your friends situation would be to find a stock with a negative comb. The cheek weld slopes down from the butt stock to towards the action. This allows no padding or minimal padding to be used on the comb and when the rifle is fired it RELEASES the cheek away from the stock. This allows for a more solid cheek weld to the stock and doesn't impact your friends cheek during recoil.

Bingo, this is the kind of info I was after. I didn't even know that such a thing existed. Thank you. Now I just need to find one. I guess you could accomplish the same thing with an adjustable butt plate that changed the geometry so that the "negative comb" is achieved.

 

[midnightmalloy]

Bingo, this is the kind of info I was after. I didn't even know that such a thing existed. Thank you. Now I just need to find one. I guess you could accomplish the same thing with an adjustable butt plate that changed the geometry so that the "negative comb" is achieved.

So good thought with the adjustable butt pad but this will not change the orientation between the cheek weld in line with the barrel so the desired effect with a negative comb would be negated. Stocks dimensions are one of the most overlooked aspects of custom rifles in my mind as in the shotgun world stock fit is paramount to success as it properly aligns the eye of the shooter with the rib and bead of the barrel essentially acting as the rear sight. If the same care was taken in a rifle stock you could acquire your target much faster and negate a substantial amount of felt recoil.

I wanted to give you a few examples of these types of stocks. These are all spotter style stocks that would fit your friends style of hunting better than a prone of tactical stock. Most of these can be inlet for a Remington 700 footprint.

Negative comb.
https://mcmillanusa.com/mcmillan-rifle-stocks/hunting-stocks-weatherby-mark-v/

This one looks like it may work well for your friend. Read the description.

https://mcmillanusa.com/mcmillan-rifle-stocks/hunting-stocks-lazzeroni-sporter/

Parallel comb.

I have had this stock before in a 280 ai and it was very comfortable to shoot.

https://mcmillanusa.com/mcmillan-rifle-stocks/hunting-stocks-sako-varmint/

I have this on my current 6.5 creedmoor with a proof barrel and it is about 9.5lbs all up with a brake and it's extremely tame on recoil. Your cheek slides strait back and doesn't rise so it's very fast to get back on target with little to no cheek impact.

https://iotaoutdoors.com/store/stocks/rifle-stock.html/

Let me know if I can help in any way.

 

[TX Badger]

So good thought with the adjustable butt pad but this will not change the orientation between the cheek weld in line with the barrel so the desired effect with a negative comb would be negated. Stocks dimensions are one of the most overlooked aspects of custom rifles in my mind as in the shotgun world stock fit is paramount to success as it properly aligns the eye of the shooter with the rib and bead of the barrel essentially acting as the rear sight. If the same care was taken in a rifle stock you could acquire your target much faster and negate a substantial amount of felt recoil.

I wanted to give you a few examples of these types of stocks. These are all spotter style stocks that would fit your friends style of hunting better than a prone of tactical stock. Most of these can be inlet for a Remington 700 footprint.

Negative comb.
https://mcmillanusa.com/mcmillan-rifle-stocks/hunting-stocks-weatherby-mark-v/

This one looks like it may work well for your friend. Read the description.

https://mcmillanusa.com/mcmillan-rifle-stocks/hunting-stocks-lazzeroni-sporter/

Parallel comb.

I have had this stock before in a 280 ai and it was very comfortable to shoot.

https://mcmillanusa.com/mcmillan-rifle-stocks/hunting-stocks-sako-varmint/

I have this on my current 6.5 creedmoor with a proof barrel and it is about 9.5lbs all up with a brake and it's extremely tame on recoil. Your cheek slides strait back and doesn't rise so it's very fast to get back on target with little to no cheek impact.

https://iotaoutdoors.com/store/stocks/rifle-stock.html/

Let me know if I can help in any way.

I understand what you are saying but to me it looks like the McMillan stocks all have a fair amount of drop from bore line to the recoil pad. (They do not list this dimension anywhere that I can see, so I'm just eye-balling it.) Wouldn't that promote muzzle rise and contact with the cheek? The Iota stock looks to have the least drop which seems to me would recoil more straight back. The negative comb would have obvious benefits if I could find that in combination with minimal drop.

What do you think about a stock like the Iota with a pic. rail and tall rings that what get the face up off the stock. Then a pad added to mimic the negative comb and maintain the benefits of cheek weld/proper alignment?

 

[RockyMtnMT]

This is not necessarily a long range topic, but I like the pragmatic advice I usually get here. I have a build project that I am taking on for a friend who had cancer in his jaw. He has had the jaw rebuilt and cannot take any recoil on it right now. He tried hunting with a handgun this year but was not happy with it. Here is my strategy. What am I missing?

1. Heavy gun, but not too long as it will be used in box blinds where long and heavy is cumbersome. I'm thinking heavier stock so it balances and a light varmint barrel. He is recovering well other than his jaw bone so he should be able to handle the weight.

2. Serious muzzle brake. I am working off the Precision Rifle Blog test for the most recoil reduction.

3. 6.5 Creedmoor or 25-06. I can run 100 gr partitions in 6.5 or 110 Accubonds in .257 and load them down for less recoil. This will give the option to be loaded up in the future when he recovers. Please do not tell me I should look at a 243 win. This is for an adult shooting large WI whitetails. While I know he could get away with it, I see no advantage. I thought about 6.5x47, 257 Roberts and some others but, long term, convenient factory ammo would be a nice option as he doesn't handload and I live in a different state.

4. Stock considerations. I am thinking of a tactical stock that has an adjustable cheek insert (like the adjustable Manners or Bell & Carlson). I would remove the insert leaving a large notch. Then add a cushioned sleeve/pad toward the back of the notch to establish some sort weld, but recoil would move the gun back and away from the jaw bone. I was also looking at a minimal drop from the center of the bore to the butt so recoil would be more straight back and have less rise/cheek slap.

OK, what have I not thought about? Are there glaring mistakes in this plan?


Thanks,

Chris

22-250 running our 44g Hammer Hunter at a bit over 4000fps. It is devastating on deer beyond 300y easy. Factory weight rifle has almost no recoil.

Steve

 

[midnightmalloy]

I understand what you are saying but to me it looks like the McMillan stocks all have a fair amount of drop from bore line to the recoil pad. (They do not list this dimension anywhere that I can see, so I'm just eye-balling it.) Wouldn't that promote muzzle rise and contact with the cheek? The Iota stock looks to have the least drop which seems to me would recoil more straight back. The negative comb would have obvious benefits if I could find that in combination with minimal drop.

What do you think about a stock like the Iota with a pic. rail and tall rings that what get the face up off the stock. Then a pad added to mimic the negative comb and maintain the benefits of cheek weld/proper alignment?

This idea can definitely work. Also if your friends jaw heals all you need to do is get a new set of medium or low rings. If you lived closer to Colorado you could just come shoot mine.

 

[midnightmalloy]

22-250 running our 44g Hammer Hunter at a bit over 4000fps. It is devastating on deer beyond 300y easy. Factory weight rifle has almost no recoil.

Steve

This would be illegal to use for deer in most states

 

[105amatt]

20", 308 Winchester. You could run 125 Noslers or 130 Barnes now. Then later move up to heavier bullets of needed. A few Remington 700 models come with threaded muzzles from the factory.

Matt