Long range shooting the 45-70.

[machoking]

Aim, squeeze, butter pancakes, drink coffee, grill bacon, pour syrup, GONG!

 

[kyron]

One thing that is easy to forget because of the needed huge elevation is that at subsonic speed the BC does not mean much.

If you look at the actual coefficient of drag it drops to almost nothing as the bullet slows below about 1100 fps.

The reason for this is a huge percentage of the actual drag on the bullet not from fiction, but from compressing the air in front of the bullet. That compression does not happen at subsonic speeds.

There is not that much wind to correct for. Also because of the lack of drag at subsonic speed.

 

[bpcrshooter]

i have a 45-70 in a pistol, 2 rifles, 45-100 in 2 rifles. Most of the time i spend is at 500m. All rifles use a .443 or .444 paper patch elliptical nose bullet about 535gr Black powder 1 1/2F swiss, and off the bench its not hard to hit the rams at 500m. I do shoot BPTR as well 8,9,1k yrds but, shooting steel is my passion. If your ever interested there are quite a few BPCR shoots around the country and every one I have ever been to everyone was welcoming to the FNG.

not sure where your from but here in WI we have a few at Winnequah gun club (paper), I go to Forsyth, Mt for the Quigly shoot (all Steel), and a few in Mn(steel & paper)

Aim, squeeze, butter pancakes, drink coffee, grill bacon, pour syrup, GONG!

Very true!!! bout a 2.5-3sec wait at a 1000 yrds

 

[Wild Bill G]

Seems like the long range shooters use bullets over 500gr. So far I only have the 325 hornady's are they just to light or would they work as well.

 

[netman]

If your wanting to shoot long range the heavy bullets are your best friend.

 

[375rifleman]

I'm very impressed that people can shoot to 1000+ yds with either blackpowder or smokeless 45-70's,45-90's, and 45-110's. I was inquiring as to whether or not heavy subsonic cartridges such as an 50 Alaskan with Hornaday A-max's, Barnes Solids, or Lehigh Defense Controlled Fracturing Subsonic Bullets could be set up to hit targets at extended ranges like the big 45's? I was just thinking that the big 45's weren't going much faster than 1100fps (that most subsonic cartridges have) maybe 500fps faster to 1600fps (just guessing here) but any of the above mentioned bullets have a much better Ballistic Coefficients (Hornaday A-Max ~1.07, Barnes Solids ~1.09, Lehigh Defense Controlled Fracturing Subsonic ~ .888) than the lead bullets could ever hope to achieve. Plus the fact that at least with the subsonic 50 Alaskan holds 1000ftlbs of energy and a Taylor Index of over 40 out to 1500+yds. Does anyone have any thoughts, opinions, or answers regarding this?

375rifleman

 

[COBrad]

Finally got around to doing a little load development with the 325 gr FTX's. I found the full length cases and bullets seated and crimped in the groove feed and chamber fine in my Browning Mirakou 1886. Shooting 57.2 gr H322 I shot a 5 shot group 1.75 wide and 3" tall. Pretty good for these 59 year old eyes and buckhorn sights at 100 yds. I'll shoot more when I get time and plan to do some elk hunting with it this fall. Still need to get that pattern 21 sight mounted.

 

[Tesoro]

We have a black powder silhouette club at my range. They all shoot variations of sharps 30 to 45 cal and once day spectating I got to play with one of the shooter's rifles when the competition was over. I was amazed how I was able to consistently ping the 24in rams at 500 yds. The next week I brought out my marlin guide gun 45-70 with scout scope to shoot at our big 500yd gong. I had to aim about 20 ft up a big pine behind it to make hits. I used the branch steps on the trunk as my ranging mechanism. Quite the rainbow trajectory but those guys shot and killed buffalo farther than that back in the day.

If I didnt have too many things to do already I would be shooting with those guys. Some of the old members will practically gift you a rifle to shoot with them as the younger crowd isnt that interested and packing the steel to set it up and take down isnt for those old boys!

 

[imyourhuckleberry]

I bought a Pedersoli Sharps in 45/70 with the 34" barrel about 4 months ago with the vernier sights and I love this rifle. I have only taken it out to 450 yards but man is it accurate. I decided on this rifle because when I called to find out about the Shiloh I was looking at almost a 2 year waiting period. I did not know if I would be alive by than. Shooting the Sharps gets all the fluids flowing again when it comes to shooting. Right now I am totally smokeless, but once I read and learn more about casting and blackpowder I will go that route.

 

[DMP25-06]

The video showing the White Buffalo was filmed at NRA Whittington Center . Range to the buffalo is 1123 yards , and the black plate is 16" diameter .
That plate is hard enough to hit with a .308 Win. , with scope , due to constantly changing winds .
If you look back at Dave's 2 shots , you will see that they are only 4 or 5 inches apart .
FANTASTIC SHOOTING .

Do a search to find the : " Billy Dixon 1573 yard shot kills Indian Chief at the BATTLE OF ADOBE WALLS , Texas .
If memory serves me correctly , Billy Dixon was a buffalo hunter with a group of people besieged by an Indian war party at the Adobe Walls settlement in Texas . Dixon took an EXTREMELY LONG shot at the Indian Chief , who was overseeing the battle from a distance , and incredibly he hit and killed the Chief , thus ending the siege .
The distance was measured by a railroad survey crew with their survey transit equipment to verify the distance . I do not remember if the survey crew was part of the group that was under siege by the Indians .

Wikipedia lists : Billy Dixon and gives a brief history of him , the battle , and the shot .
He used a borrowed .50-90 Sharps , as he did not think that his .45-90 Sharps could carry that range .
Billy Dixon was one of only a few civilians to be awarded the Congressional Medal Of Honor .

DMP25-06

 

[RonS]

In my local F Class matches the black powder shooters shoot with us. Mid range only (200, 300 and 600 yards where only black powder shoots at 200). Their x ring is about 2 MOA where ours in F Class is .5 MOA. Most of them are shooting 45-90 at 600 with 500+ grain cast bullets. Those guys can drop them in. One of the guys held the national record at 1000 yards for a number of years. Most people who have never seen it would be blown away. I've seen guys show up with quality hunting rifles that don't do as well.

 

[bpcrshooter]

I'm very impressed that people can shoot to 1000+ yds with either blackpowder or smokeless 45-70's,45-90's, and 45-110's. I was inquiring as to whether or not heavy subsonic cartridges such as an 50 Alaskan with Hornaday A-max's, Barnes Solids, or Lehigh Defense Controlled Fracturing Subsonic Bullets could be set up to hit targets at extended ranges like the big 45's? I was just thinking that the big 45's weren't going much faster than 1100fps (that most subsonic cartridges have) maybe 500fps faster to 1600fps (just guessing here) but any of the above mentioned bullets have a much better Ballistic Coefficients (Hornaday A-Max ~1.07, Barnes Solids ~1.09, Lehigh Defense Controlled Fracturing Subsonic ~ .888) than the lead bullets could ever hope to achieve. Plus the fact that at least with the subsonic 50 Alaskan holds 1000ftlbs of energy and a Taylor Index of over 40 out to 1500+yds. Does anyone have any thoughts, opinions, or answers regarding this?

I shoot this bullet out of my 45-100 @ 1435fps avg with a 18 twist barrel. Yes there are 45-70's are in the 1100 fps range but shooting them @1k yrds is a challenge, only being able to get 60 or so grains of powder in the case, with grooved bullets, with paper patch bullets putting 70+ grains in and compressing .100 then seating the bullet into the rifling helps out a lot!! but compairing it to my 102gr its still pretty slow, having proper bullet weight/length/barrel twist is key. The 50-90 shooters do very well but shooting them for any extended periods is brutal on your shoulder. Most barrels made for the 45-70, 45-90, 45-100, 45-110 and 45-120 are in the 1-18 to 1-20 range with some guys now playing with 1-16 twists, but average bullet length in that 1.3 to 1.5in range mine are at 1.41in. the only problem I can see with a 50 Alaskan is bullet length, as you go bigger in dia bullets of same weight get shorter causing stability issues, not to say it wont get there but long for cal bullets fly better...usually. If it were me I would look at my barrel twist and see what bullets I could use, then see what velocity is achievable, more the better. Most jacketed bullets have a speed range that they expand in. as for a B.C. your probably right, we wont be able to achieve what the A-Max will

 

[boscodog]

I shoot this bullet out of my 45-100 @ 1435fps avg with a 18 twist barrel. Yes there are 45-70's are in the 1100 fps range but shooting them @1k yrds is a challenge, only being able to get 60 or so grains of powder in the case, with grooved bullets, with paper patch bullets putting 70+ grains in and compressing .100 then seating the bullet into the rifling helps out a lot!! but compairing it to my 102gr its still pretty slow, having proper bullet weight/length/barrel twist is key. The 50-90 shooters do very well but shooting them for any extended periods is brutal on your shoulder. Most barrels made for the 45-70, 45-90, 45-100, 45-110 and 45-120 are in the 1-18 to 1-20 range with some guys now playing with 1-16 twists, but average bullet length in that 1.3 to 1.5in range mine are at 1.41in. the only problem I can see with a 50 Alaskan is bullet length, as you go bigger in dia bullets of same weight get shorter causing stability issues, not to say it wont get there but long for cal bullets fly better...usually. If it were me I would look at my barrel twist and see what bullets I could use, then see what velocity is achievable, more the better. Most jacketed bullets have a speed range that they expand in. as for a B.C. your probably right, we wont be able to achieve what the A-Max will

Tagging in

Tom

 

[Wild Bill G]

I really prefer smokeless powder to black does it make any difference in the end result. Also could we use the substitute pellets instead of black powder.