Long Range Bullets and Terminal Performance

[jwp475]

A lot of times they wont expand at all !!!!!!!!
UB

I keep hearing that, between myself and some guy's that I hunt with and about 50 or so head of game downed have yet to see anything but massive internal damage. Even on the Antelope I killed at 777 yards, I know that distance is not in your league, but with all due respect out to 777 yards they have performed outstandingly on game.

For ranges exceeding 1K I have chosen a different bullet for sure and for certain but, most of the new guys on this forum will find 700 yards to be a long distance.
UncleB you, gg, Kirby, Shawn and others are light years ahead of most on this or any other site with regard to the distances that you have taken game. Keep the impact velocity at 1800FPS or more and I have never seen anything but, superb performance from the TSX.

 

[jwp475]

When i first started messing with them in the STW quite a few guys mentioned the pedals were falling off an pinholing stuff. Havent seen it personally but just what i heard.

So what if a pedal flys off? Lead flys off all the time, how is a secondary missile a bad thing?
GS Custom from South Africa makes all copper bullets as well and they advocate shooting them fast enough to blow the pedals off and create more internal damage.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

It's been an interesting discussion. I'm still leaning toward the 180 gr E-Tip in my 300 WSM. I'll probably be able to give them a good test with antelope this fall if I can get my capabilities up to 700-800 yds.

From what I've seen and heard the TSX's hold together very well except up to extreme velociteis. A Nosler E-tip add shows an some E-Tips next to TSX's shot at 3200 fps terminal and 1800 fps terminal. The TSX at 3200 fps, lost all it's pedals while the E-Tip held together. And the TSX at 1800 fps showed almost no expansion while the E-Tip showed some. I also saw another experiment where a TSX penetrated about 50% farther than an E-Tip through some phone books.

The Accubonds are good bullets but I'm thinking that *maybe* the E-Tips will have a little edge over them ballistically and accuracy.

Bergers are great bullets, but I don't like their explosive nature at high velociteis for the closer shots, and because of their long narrow design, may not be real practical for a WSM?

It will be interesting to see how all this unfolds, really looking forward to making some long shots as I develop the ability.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Oh yeah, and lets not forget the 225 AB in my .338 that busted down a gigantic bodied bull elk at 1302 yards. And they work at point blank range too. There's a reason why AB are best sellers.

GG, If you don't mind me asking, what was your MV for this bullet and what do you calculate the velocity @ 1300 yds was? And did the bullet expand? What damage did it do? Did it exit?

Thanks,

Mark

 

[jwp475]

Oh yea, it exited and drop that big Bull on the spot.

 

[edge]

IMO, the Accubond is the best thing since sliced bread....at all but long long range, and then only since there may be better BC choices!

First ballistic tips open very easily so you will get expansion at all but ridiculously low velocities;
and secondly they hold together very well.

I have a custom smokeless 45 caliber muzzleloader and I shoot 30 caliber 150 grain accubonds in excess of 3100 fps. I discharge my rifle after every hunt.
Last year I shot at a tree and the Accubond went through it, but as luck would have it it centered a second tree about 5 yards further on and I had my portable sawzall with me. The first tree was 47 yards and about 6 inches across. Impact velocity was probably about 2950 to 3000 fps.
I did nick the bullet cutting it out of the tree, but it weighed 107 grains or 71% of its weight, a bit over 1/2 inch across, and a near perfect bonded mushroom!

The only thing I had for size comparison was an old can of obsolete powder.

edge.

 

[goodgrouper]

GG, If you don't mind me asking, what was your MV for this bullet and what do you calculate the velocity @ 1300 yds was? And did the bullet expand? What damage did it do? Did it exit?

Thanks,

Mark

Here's the story:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/bull-elk-1302-yards-18217/

The bullet left my gun at a tad over 3300 fps. I don't have my ballistics program handy to calculate what the velo was on impact but it was good. Yes, the damage was great and the expansion was superb. We never found a mushroom but we could have easily missed it somewhere in all the mess. It was very difficult to bone out this elk as the area where it died was a steep, small, aspen grove and only one person at a time could get in there to cut.

 

[Pdvdh]

Solution:

Load the Nosler Accubonds, E-tips, Barnes TSX - take your pick - in the magazine and use those for close shots under 400 yds. Tack driving accuracy, high BC, and low ES and SD aren't absolute necessities under 400 yds.

If the Bergers shoot good at long range, load and use them for long range shots where you'll have time to prepare for the shot. If the Bergers won't fit in your magazine when loaded to jam into the lands, then load and fire them one at a time - single shot style. It won't be a handicap if the game is a long ways off. You'll generally have time to load and shoot them single shot style.

Then you'll have the best option for both scenarios. This is a standard practice of mine in Alaska. I carry brown/grizzly bear loads in the magazine for a close range encounter of the worst kind, and these bear loads are also fine for fast action game animal encounters out to 400 yds. Then if I set up to take a shot across the mountain at long range, I swap out and load my long range loads single shot style. Hasn't posed any handicap for me to date.

All my effort goes into developing the long range loads. Just about any stout bullet will suffice and be accurate enough for the camp bears and closer shots - on out to 400 yds - on big game sized animals.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

GG,
Thanks for the info, that was a great story and good pics. Congradulations on the success. When I run the ballistics, it looks like it was traveling about 1600 fps at impact. Great performance at that velocity.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

phorwath,
Some good points there. I had thought about loading bergers for the loger shots but hadn't thought about loading them longer for single shot, That's a good idea, I might try it.

 

[linksmechanic]

GG I agree with you to a point on the smk. I personally don't use them anymore. But if were talking big sauce here the accubond isn't even in the same ball park as the 300 smk in .338. You sling any kind of lead at that weight and things are bound to die. That's why I stated the heavier smk's were o.k. Now as for accubonds vs. bergers there really isn't any comparison imo. The bergers have a way higher b.c. with devastating terminal performance that I have seen up close and a long ways away. In fact it seems everything I've shot with a berger vld be it long or short has been bang flop one shot! I shoot the bergers in .30 cal 7mm and .20 cal and I couldn't be happier. I actually used the accubonds before the bergers but then stumbled on the bergers a few years ago and have never looked back. It seems if you seat them into the lands they aren't so picky. Anyways nice shooting.

 

[edge]

While I enjoy watching bang-flops whether from a Ballistic tip or Berger type, I just prefer a bullet that stays together. If the manufacturer tells me that it will shed 80-90% of its weight and I make a less than perfect shot I feel that there is a much greater chance for losing the animal than if the bullet retains a fair amount of its weight.

I know that nobody ever makes a bad shot, nobody ever misjudges the wind, and that animals never move during bullet transit, but one of these days one of those things might just happen...it might just be Twilight Zone thinking, but what if these things could happen!

edge.

 

[goodgrouper]

GG,
Thanks for the info, that was a great story and good pics. Congradulations on the success. When I run the ballistics, it looks like it was traveling about 1600 fps at impact. Great performance at that velocity.

Thanks.

Did you run the chart for 5500 feet elevation?

 

[goodgrouper]

GG I agree with you to a point on the smk. I personally don't use them anymore. But if were talking big sauce here the accubond isn't even in the same ball park as the 300 smk in .338. You sling any kind of lead at that weight and things are bound to die. That's why I stated the heavier smk's were o.k. Now as for accubonds vs. bergers there really isn't any comparison imo. The bergers have a way higher b.c. with devastating terminal performance that I have seen up close and a long ways away. In fact it seems everything I've shot with a berger vld be it long or short has been bang flop one shot! I shoot the bergers in .30 cal 7mm and .20 cal and I couldn't be happier. I actually used the accubonds before the bergers but then stumbled on the bergers a few years ago and have never looked back. It seems if you seat them into the lands they aren't so picky. Anyways nice shooting.

Links,
The 300 grain 338 SMK is one of the SMK's that ALWAYS expanded in my tests and in the game I've shot with them. The two moose at over 900 yards last year were both killed with this bullet and the devastation was enormous. I couldn't have used a better bullet for the hunt.

ANd I too have never had to shoot anything twice with Bergers. And I do believe they are a tad bit better for long range terminal performance. But I think the Accubonds work a tad better up close for penetration or for bone hits. That is why I think the Accubonds are the best "all around" bullet because they score high in every category short and long. But the Bergers get a higher score on the long end of the spectrum. I have been hunting with Accubonds since 2000 and have taken a lot of long range game with them and some of those animals I believe would have been too far and too thin skinned for anything other than a Berger to work.