Loaning a suppressor on private property?

[SealT5]

You didn't offend me sir. It's been a good deer season and great Christmas. Son and brother in law shot nice bucks this weekend. Kids got everything they wanted. Santa brought a new puppy! We had deer chicken frys for lunch and I'm cooking hibachi fried rice and chicken on the disc! It's been a great Christmas. God bless!

ST4

Please please do not take it as I were insinuating that you had broken any law.
That was not my intention.
It's purely speculation on what could happen.

Personally, I'm sitting in a deer stand with my non suppressed SAVAGE MSR10 Longrange 6.5 with factory hornady 129 grain white tails.
My belly full of ham, mashed potatoes and pecan pie.

It's 72 degrees and life could not get any better. Worst thing that could happen is the warm sunlight puts me to sleep.

y'all have a great rest of Christmas and a good new year.
I'm looking forward to more and more reading.

may the Good Lord bless you all.

 

[ADHD]

Hmmmmmmm , I just signed my variance for using the electronic kiosk for ATF paperwork this week , so laws n rules change quickly within ATFs realm, however what I stated was what myself and my employees were told by the ATF Agents auditing us last year , which is why I no longer push trusts , as I actually purchased a fair amount of them to resell at cost to my customers but then this change , so they are in a file gathering dust now. But I will not disagree until I talk to my rep At silencer shop ,as things change , ways around are discovered , etc ,etc., but I only stated as I was told by Actual ATF agents , but I will need to get clarification on the trust additions as that would actually be great ,to still be able to have that option. And , the actual verbiage was told for additions prior to law change ,was additions could be added as long as you have no knowledge of them not being able to own a firearm, be interesting to see how that would play out if someone was added that could own , as we now send anybody who is unsure ,to get license to carry , as State Police started charging and prosecuting people who innocently tried to purchase a firearm n couldn't own one due to a minor charge 20,30 years ago in a lot of cases, as an FYI .
Sorry if I was incorrect but we have to redo a fair amount of trust paperwork's for additions and responsible persons that were added prior to changes so I'm guessing that somebody figured out a way to create a different trust version that due to language or the like ,can still allow written in additions ,but still will need to submit fingerprints along with passport photos I would assume? These are the very things that are just murky enough so that different agents in different areas answer differently which then creates the situation where innocent individuals ,thinking they were with8n the law , get crucified for mistake . The ATF needs a major overhaul and a sim0lification and clarification of many Grey area laws

 

[SealT5]

Oh, and we finally went and saw Frozen 2 today!

 

[Gcan]

Letter of the law explanation on under owners supervision ,can go so far as to having suppressors in a room , not in a safe or under lock and key , that others can easily access. As in an unlocked room of your house ,where others reside that are not on the trust for suppressor . And as far as easily adding people to trust at any time simply by filing addendum , that ship has sailed as well. Now , any individual being added to a trust ,must complete same background check as original person. They pretty much did away with a lot of the GOOD parts of having a trust , such as sharing between friends ,simply by adding them to trust .
I am a class 07 manufacturer with 02 SOT , AND have been through 4 intense audits with ATF ,including one that bordered on harassment ,which took 3 months , and ended with myself and Joshua Prince ,going in front of The Who's who of the eastern ATF in Philadelphia ATF ,for a possible revocation over clerical errors only . Very eye opening due to how the different class FFLs are charged when violations occur, such as a retail FFL can have several of the same violations and be cited for one , but being a manufacturer ,each violation counts as one ,wether the same or different , so my A&D books having hash marks between top fully completed and bottom fully completed entry for where transferred from , when receiving multiple guns from same place ,counted as repeat violations ,which brings up possible revocation process.
Only saying all of this to make point that even among FFLs , there will b different answers ,due to different class FFLs. I can legally manufacture and possess pretty much anything up to but not including explosives as currently licensed. But I have to dot every I, and cross every T on paperwork ,or it's my *Rule 4 Violation*. So I sent several hundred guns to auction and now order guns for customers ,do drawings ,and just build ,customize and gunsmith, so that there is less chance for errors as most are on the 4473s anyways . But definitely ILLEGAL to loan unless with person entire time , and to those thinking can still just write in someone on their trust , ya best check up on that as it most definitely changed last year

You are right bout the new trust requirements, however (unless I'm wrong) there is still a couple benefits to a trust. Most ppl do not know that if they own any NFA item and die, all the NFA items become non transferable. And I'm also told they must be turned in to ATF. If those same items are owned thru a trust and that trust has at least one person who has been legally added, then the NFA items are fine. They can be transferred. Another benefit (I'm told) is if you hold NFA items Personally, you and buyer must go through same (many month) stamp process if you wish to sell any NFA item. However, if you hold NFA items in a trust and pass away, or have one or several items in a trust (some people have several trusts) a buyer can simply be added to the trust legally (prints/background) and assume the trust. You are basically selling the trust, not NFA items. I'm not certain if its that simple but I was told by ATF agent it was. I know it works with real estate. You are selling the entity not the items. If true, that is probably the best reason to maintain a trust/s for your NFA items. Anyone have any experience with this?

 

[cohunt]

You are right bout the new trust requirements, however (unless I'm wrong) there is still a couple benefits to a trust. Most ppl do not know that if they own any NFA item and die, all the NFA items become non transferable. And I'm also told they must be turned in to ATF. If those same items are owned thru a trust and that trust has at least one person who has been legally added, then the NFA items are fine. They can be transferred. Another benefit (I'm told) is if you hold NFA items Personally, you and buyer must go through same (many month) stamp process if you wish to sell any NFA item. However, if you hold NFA items in a trust and pass away, or have one or several items in a trust (some people have several trusts) a buyer can simply be added to the trust legally (prints/background) and assume the trust. You are basically selling the trust, not NFA items. I'm not certain if its that simple but I was told by ATF agent it was. I know it works with real estate. You are selling the entity not the items. If true, that is probably the best reason to maintain a trust/s for your NFA items. Anyone have any experience with this?

Lots of things not so true in that statement

Anyone can "will" an nfa item to a lawful heir on a form 5 without paying the tax assessment

I wont even go into all the other issues above.

Best thing to do, if you own nfa items is to refer to an attorney in your state as there are so many wrong statements in this whole thread even from people supposedly "in the know"

 

[mdvctry]

You are right bout the new trust requirements, however (unless I'm wrong) there is still a couple benefits to a trust. Most ppl do not know that if they own any NFA item and die, all the NFA items become non transferable. And I'm also told they must be turned in to ATF. If those same items are owned thru a trust and that trust has at least one person who has been legally added, then the NFA items are fine. They can be transferred. Another benefit (I'm told) is if you hold NFA items Personally, you and buyer must go through same (many month) stamp process if you wish to sell any NFA item. However, if you hold NFA items in a trust and pass away, or have one or several items in a trust (some people have several trusts) a buyer can simply be added to the trust legally (prints/background) and assume the trust. You are basically selling the trust, not NFA items. I'm not certain if its that simple but I was told by ATF agent it was. I know it works with real estate. You are selling the entity not the items. If true, that is probably the best reason to maintain a trust/s for your NFA items. Anyone have any experience with this?

I agree that a trust is still beneficial for 'transferring' trustees in the event of a death. I'm not a lawyer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express, but the trust owns the NFA items so you avoid having to pay transfer fees upon the death of a trustee. But because trusts are regulated by state law, you have to 1) know the law in your state and 2) NFA items are regulated by the federal govt so the trust has to take into account the legalities for both. So consult with a firearms lawyer in your state, but in the end, you're ultimately responsible for their good or bad advice. Again I'm not a lawyer and certainly can't speak for anyone except myself, which is only one persons opinion. Always get competent legal advice, then big boy and girl rules apply.

 

[Tom_C]

Any clue what the law says about loaning a suppressor to a friend or guest on private property? To be clear this would be on a large TX ranch where the Can will not ever leave the property. More or less going from the camp to the blind. Thanks

Joe S

If the suppressor is in your name, you can loan it to anyone you want, so long as you remain physically in control of it and no one else controls it.
If the suppressor is registered to a trust, it has to remain in the control of a trustee.
If the suppressor is registered to a corporation it has to remain in the control of an officer or employee of the corporation.

 

[villagelightsmith]

Any clue what the law says about loaning a suppressor to a friend or guest on private property? To be clear this would be on a large TX ranch where the Can will not ever leave the property. More or less going from the camp to the blind. Thanks

Joe S

Sorry, but I would not trust my nearest neighbor or any of my blood kin to resist the temptation to pretend to be a hero and call the Federales AND the local TV station just to get their names in print. I would not trust local LEO's to resist the opportunity to make a bust, good or bad, when their own butts would be on the line before their supers when it got out they had FAILED to make a bust. Nor would I trust anyone I know to refuse entry to any representative of the law for any reason, warrant present or not. The can stays with me. Sorry. As for trusting the good folks at the ATF ... or State or local law enforcement, they haven't shown themselves to be operating in my best interest in any matters. The can, AND the paperwork, stays under my immediate control at all times. I have never allowed any Government agent, be it law enforcement, assessors, inspectors, etc, onto my property but what I have regretted it. I'm in my 8th decade, and I've just had too much experience with them.

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

Texas Parks and Wildlife officers don't need a warrant and I have found that they are common sense individuals. They can tell pretty quick if you seem to be responsible law abiding citizens and treat you accordingly.

Game wardens actually have more power than police and state patrol: they can search your property for illegally taken game, even in the kitchen freezer, without a warrant. But I doubt they care about the paperwork for a suppressor.

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

The advantage is for the shooters hearing preservation. And it's America

The other advantage: less disturbance of the surrounding game that isn't being shot.

 

[Lenny Foffa]

Excellent responses and very educational. I just learned a lot. Thank You all, lenny

 

[rugers]

To tell you the truth have really no idea why there regulated in the first place,

 

[SCSCHNUR]

I don't understand if a licensed concealed carry with the background checks they go through has to go through the lengthy suppressor paper and wait to get a can. I can't wait for these laws to change, They are burdensome and don't make sense. But nothing the government is involved in makes sense at times. You wait three months for background checks to get a Concealed Carry License and go through it again. Then the suppressor is way over priced and the a tax stamp on top of that.

 

[DavidleeCole]

This is a question best left to an Attorney. Unfortunately there is no grey area with firearms and the permitted items. You can do most anything on your private property until an accident happens. Heck my friend was drinking and riding his 4wheller on his own property had a wreck ambulance came out and the deputies cause it was a vehicle accident they ave him a DWI and it did stick in the courts alone with his disorderly conduct charges. Of course he got mouthy he was on his place in cuffs he went to jail. I know the law says that the permitted owner or the trust owner can let someone shoot with a suppressor as long as the have direct supervision of it. I would not push it to far Everyone wants to take or rights away why give them a reason to.